Destruction's Poor Showing at Blackout

[Donal]

8 hours ago, ChippyRick said:

As it was vs me Game 4 i can agree with Donal on his breakdown of the game. It was always going to be a tough one for him but the early turns things just went a little in my favour. This just opened up the margins more and made everything harder again. It would be interesting to play that game out again as it could be different for sure.

...

BCR changes imo were unnecesary and a real shame. Yes they were decision made to knock back that mixed list we all know of from the last year, but the changes have made a weak BCR book weaker again which is a massive shame. I love and have played BCR monsters since the start and had hoped the new GHB ws going to bost them. There is still options luckily for these though I think, but for the most part atm i see it as allies needed.

@ChippyRick think you are too generous. Even if i had won that first priority you would always have been ahead on scenarios. I def could have made it more of a game through better deployment but it would have just been able to slow the inevitable (unless you played badly). Skyborne vs BCR is an impossible match up (in the hands of a good player) in some scenarios.

I think BCR aren't actually that much weaker than they used to be. Yes the damage output is alot worse, but that was expected, but frostlords still pack a punch, you just need to position them well and use the rest of the army to reduce pile ins. When I played several larger units this weekend I pinned  them in place by hitting them in both sides. BCR has the speed to do that.  They are a comfortable mid-tier army now, but I think pure BCR always were. 

[Binx]

Heres my list.

Thanks for the kind words Donal. Was a good game but I dug myself into a hole from the outset. I'll get you next time ?

[Tizianolol]

@Binx 

when  you build ed the list have you considered to play keeper + lord of slaanesh on demonic mount with 2 command ability alliance trait?

doble pile for demonettes and caos knights Is so good. Or do you think Italia not good sinergy in a tournament?:)

[Binx]

5 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

@Binx 

when  you build ed the list have you considered to play keeper + lord of slaanesh on demonic mount with 2 command ability alliance trait?

doble pile for demonettes and caos knights Is so good. Or do you think Italia not good sinergy in a tournament?:)

I literally took the models I had. Once the GHB17 points were available I added 1 Hellflayer and the 2 units of Hellstriders to make up the points I'd gained from the daemonnettes points reduction and dropping a Daemon Prince from my previously played list.

Ive heard lots of suggestions on multiple Keepers and bringing in a lord on a mount but after 15 years I have no intention of adding any more models as my OCD means I have to paint any new models to a level I painted back then, when I'd rather be showing off my actual ability.

I really enjoyed this build but I'm sure better players than me will come up with some new filth ?

[Tizianolol]

Ok thx a lot anyway:)

[ChippyRick]

22 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

@ChippyRick - Interesting comments re Ogors. I'd be keen to discuss this more with you actually...I have that army I recently bought back just sat around now!!

Yes with that nice looking army in your possession it woul dbe good to get some games. 

[WSDdeloach]

For destruction now, I think it's about going with a more "mono" list. BCR can still be good if you're taking BCR allegiance. The ice mammoth plate makes the stonehorn almost back to its former glory. 

A few list my club and I have toyed with seem fairly viable. But, yes Destruction is on the back foot.. and it seems to be that for the time being. Ravager change, battlebrew change... these things hurt. 

But I think they're are a list or two in there. 

Here's one for example

huskard on Thundertusk 

general, everwinters master, ice mammoth plate 

x3 thundertusk beastriders (battleline) 

x3 Gutbusters grots (gnoblars) 60 bodies 

torrbad battalion. 

You take this, clump thenfour Thuder-buddies together. Wraps them with gnoblars. And take the other two units to get objectives. 

 

Or... 

frostlord on stone horn

icd mammoth plate

x2 husk on Thundertusk 

Ice brow hunter 

general, everwinter's master, elixer 

x3 units of sabertusks 

x3 scraplauncher 

skall

[WSDdeloach]

@ChippyRick @Chris Tomlin 

This could be a thing... 

[Soup Dragon]

6 hours ago, WSDdeloach said:

frostlord on stone horn

icd mammoth plate

x2 husk on Thundertusk 

Ice brow hunter 

general, everwinter's master, elixer 

x3 units of sabertusks 

x3 scraplauncher 

skall

I really like the cheapness of making the Hunter the General and taking 3 x 2 Frost Sabres - 260 points for battle line is great. But, I have found that the Hunter often doesn't come down until turn 2 or 3, and is often a sacrificial unit capturing and scoring key objectives for a turn and then dying. He can't use his Everwinter Master when he's not on the table, and that is what's holding me back, it's just such a useful trait.

[ChippyRick]

6 hours ago, WSDdeloach said:

@ChippyRick @Chris Tomlin 

This could be a thing... 

Quite a cool list.

I just cant look past having a unit of Ironguts in there, such a good unit. 

Like the units of Grots, these really help with board control and screenign areas. Lots of models to chew through.

Maybe consider leadbelchers over the scraplaunchers, but i do like them. possibly a mix.

[DeadlySarcasm]

It's because I wasn't there  

#Top10AtTomorrowBurns

[bonzai]

On 9/4/2017 at 4:35 PM, Soup Dragon said:

I had high hopes of Nicky Mylands Bonesplitterz list (4 x 30 arrowboys + Kunnin Rukk + 2 heroes) it was sweeping all before it at the weekend, and had he ever played Fyreslayers before, could have won all 5 games. However, I beat it in a practice game last week (with a Seraphon Ripper list) and Ellis Priestley beat it with KO today, so it's got it's weaknesses.  we were talking tonight about what changes he should make to it.

As a Bonesplitterz player this list kind of makes me sad. Nearly every army entry got a price hike to nerf Kunning Rukk, and they lowered max unit size as well. I predicted in the Bonesplitterz discussion thread that all of these changes would do nothing to discourage taking a Kunning Rukk, and would actually lead to less variation in lists. Sadly it looks like I was right. With Arrowboys as battle line, you don't have to take anything else, and with the price hikes you really can't afford to anyways if you go double on the Rukk. Nothing else is near as efficient or effective, so again why wouldn't you?

The only changes I would consider would be to drop 10 boys from two of the squads for 2 maniac weirdnobs. That way you can cast Brutal Beast Spirits and Bone Spirits so you get +1 to hit, reroll 1's,  with 6's generating extra attacks. Would have to math it out and see if it's worth losing 60 shots a turn though.

The problem with this (aside from the player hate), is that it is what I call a spoiler list. It is a one trick pony that has some hard counters. It won't win big events as it will eventually run into its counter.  Bonesplitterz will place high, but won't take top tables usually.

The go too mixed destruction list took a hit on most levels, with the Increased points, and rampaging destroyer and stone horn nerfs. It's no surprise that it wasn't a performer. 

Mono BCR was't top tier before. Allies can now help with objectives now, but with the other changes it's probably not enough to make them top tier. 

This just leaves Iron Jaws. There could be some potential here.  Their allegiance abilities are a trickier to pull off than you might think, and the blow to their movement hurts. Still they are the only destruction army that could arguably have gotten better with the GHB17. With practice and time we could see them doing better over all.

So in hindsight there isn't a lot of surprise here. We will see if this changes.

[Kanamorf]

Having played a couple of games against @discoking this weekend gone with my Bonesplitterz I am now in a much better place to start constructing my list for Facehammer. So lost both my games of AoS against his Soulblight

Game 1

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
Wardokk (100)
Wardokk (100)
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
20 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
Balewind Vortex (100)

2 x Grot Spear Chukka (240)
Total: 1980/2000

Playing Knife to the heart.

Result, I played badly, discoking played well and he lost 3 fell bats for a total annihilation of me. So what went wrong. 

1/ I am really not used to playing the first turn first, I have always given the first turn to my opponent and reacted. 
Nearly 100 games in this last year I just did not know how to play
Soulblight are one of my nemesis armies and even in the old points I would struggle to a win rather than sweep gloriously, 
on other days I would scrap to a loss. His Blood Knights are a tough nut to crack and 3 units just means he gets 3 back a turn
if you do things wrong.

2/ The Prophet on the Balewind is expensive but can be great, however against a Vampire on Zombie dragon 2 * D3 wounds is not enough.
3/ Maniac Wierdnob is a little expensive for what he does (reroll 1 to hit) when the rest of your army just got more expensive.
4/ The Morboys are a little underwhelming. 30 models on 32mm bases with a 1" reach, it is just too hard to bring that theoretical power
to bear.
5/ Archers are still archers and not having the Kunnin Rukk is sad but they are still a block of 60 wounds moving around the table causing 
pain and being difficult to shift. I nearly always Inspiring Presence them to make them harder to get rid of.
6/ Spear Chukkas a great and against an army which has more than 2 heroes or an army with 6 wound heroes it would have been much better.
My issue this game was getting the Vampire on Zombie dragon down to 1 wound and watch it heal back up to near full by the end of the game.
Damn him rolling a 6 for his regeneration chalice.

Conclusion this is not the right list for me.

Game 2

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Savage Big Boss (120)
- Granite Choppas 
Wardokk (100)
Wardokk (100)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
Kunnin' Rukk (160)

Total: 2000/2000

Played scenario 2 for GHB17 (can't remember its name)

Result: I still lost but it went better. Again I did not deal well with the first turn and left one of my boar units
in a silly place to get counter charged. I also set up my archers poorly and discoking used LoS well and hid from them.

I think this list is closer to what I will end up taking, the thing that is currently occupying my mind is drop reduction.

I think I have 2 options
The Teef Rukk is 90 points so dropping one set of stabbas and putting the rest in a battalion is me down to 6 drops
Another option is to run one unit of 20 boars. No this is my favourite idea at the moment. I loose some flexibility for
objective capture however they get much better when buffed and thrown at the opponent.

I have to concur with @soupdragon that Destruction is hurting and will take a while to readjust

[Malakree]

7 hours ago, Kanamorf said:

The Teef Rukk is 90 points so dropping one set of stabbas and putting the rest in a battalion is me down to 6 drops

One thing to note about this would be the extra artefact giving you access to 3 total. Worth a consideration if there is another one you would want. If that artefact is going to waste then you are getting slightly less bang for your buck and the boars might be a better idea.

I'm not up to speed on bonesplitters but it might be worth looking into what allies you have available. One of the things your list is short on is behemoths and the allies would give you a wide choice of what you could add. Aleguzzlar Gargant (170), Arachnarok Spider (280), Colossal Squig (300) or a Troggoth Hag (360) give you a good range depending on how many points you might want to invest.

[Kanamorf]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I'm not up to speed on bonesplitters but it might be worth looking into what allies you have available. One of the things your list is short on is behemoths and the allies would give you a wide choice of what you could add. Aleguzzlar Gargant (170), Arachnarok Spider (280), Colossal Squig (300) or a Troggoth Hag (360) give you a good range depending on how many points you might want to invest.

Bonesplitterz kill monsters not ally with them! I even have my own monster hunter hat to prove it

 

I may go back to the spear chukkas as an ally option but my monster hunting sensibilities will not allow behemoths

[Spiky Norman]

Rogue Idol of Gork (or Mork) is not a monster, it's a manifestation of pure WAAAGHH energy - So thats a behemoth that should fit right in with the Bonesplittas :-)

[bonzai]

1 hour ago, Spiky Norman said:

Rogue Idol of Gork (or Mork) is not a monster, it's a manifestation of pure WAAAGHH energy - So thats a behemoth that should fit right in with the Bonesplittas :-)

Yeah, pinning one together now.

The list I'm going to try out;

Drakkfoot warclan

 Kopp Rukk

Wurrgog Prophet 

3x Warrdokk

2x 20 Morboys

2x 5 Boarboy Maniacs

allied Rogue Idol

Total: 2,000

2 drops, 3 artifacts, and not a Kunning Rukk. Casters can get a +3  to cast, and with the Kopp Rukk and Wurrgog I can get two extra pile ins a turn,  not counting the maniacs.  Wish I could squeeze big Stabbas in, but hopefully the idol will compensate. Short on range as well, but the 4 casters can some what help with that.

Its the direction I am going in anyways. Probably not tourney level, but will be more fun for both parties than double Kunning Rukk.

[PlasticCraic]

I noticed on Twitter that there is a 32 player tournament in Scotland this weekend (The Howling)...32 entries, only 1 Destruction.  Not an orruk to be seen.  Hopefully this isn't the sign of things to come.