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PowerCreep

Can i use other black sprays instead of chaos black?

28 posts in this topic

PowerCreep    4

I found an army painter Black Primer for a cheaper price then the GW one, so I was wondering do they have the same effect?

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7 minutes ago, PowerCreep said:

I found an army painter Black Primer for a cheaper price then the GW one, so I was wondering do they have the same effect?

The short answer is yes, but different people will have different opinions on the quality and value of different brands. Personally I use Halfords black primer because it gives excellent coverage and crisp detail.

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PowerCreep    4
11 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

The short answer is yes, but different people will have different opinions on the quality and value of different brands. Personally I use Halfords black primer because it gives excellent coverage and crisp detail.

I saw the army painter one 

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Ben    1,363

GW black spray is excellent.  The coverage is great and i've never had a problem with its finish.  

I use Wilkos on brand stuff for terrain as it is very cheap and the quality of the finish is not as important to me on the terrain but on models its always the GW stuff.  

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PowerCreep    4
2 minutes ago, Ben said:

GW black spray is excellent.  The coverage is great and i've never had a problem with its finish.  

I use Wilkos on brand stuff for terrain as it is very cheap and the quality of the finish is not as important to me on the terrain but on models its always the GW stuff.  

Ok, but what about army painter?

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PowerCreep    4
2 minutes ago, pseudonyme said:

Use white or at least grey undercoat. It is easier to darken than to highlight. And Army painter sprays are good.

I am thinking on starting seraphon and the tutorials show i need a black one

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pseudonyme    17

No, you don't "need" anything. But if you feel more comfortable using a black primer following a painting guide, go for it.

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bsharitt    54

I use plain grey Krylon primer. I prefer a grey base to begin with and having used P3, Citadel, and Army Painter primers, I've not seen anything to convince me they're really worth it(the exception would probably be if I needed a horde army primed in a specific base color to save time).

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RuneBrush    1,122

GW spray paints are I believe the only miniature paint out there that are "self-etching", so it'll slightly melt the surface of plastic before it solidifies.  This is why you get a really smooth result with a relatively thin layer*.  Most other sprays simply "glue" themselves to the surface, it's certainly the case with brush on (and airbrush) primer/undercoats.

Terrain wise, I tend to use Plastikote black matt.  You can whack a fairly decent layer on and it's fairly rough so takes a drybrush well and a bit of texture to prevent models sliding all over the shop.

Personally I'll never use anything but GW for regular plastic models.  Although it's a little more expensive than other manufacturers, it's 99% reliable if you spray in the right conditions.

*You can actually test this out by spraying something with a really fine detail and then rub the paint off before it dries - the fine detail will be soft and rub off, likely ruining the model :D

 

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Aginor    126

I exclusively use Army Painter sprays for my Seraphon and Deathrattle.

Since I do lots of blue models (Skinks, Saurus) I even use the blue spray primer. That saves tons of work.

For the rest of the Seraphon (the big dinosaurs and so on) I use either black (more forgiving) or white (gives better results for bright colors IMO, but also makes things a bit harder). Many people use grey, which is between the two.

For my skeletons I use Skeleton Bone primer, which is awesome because all you have to do is shade them afterwards, no painting the bones, just the rest. I like it.


About the qualitiy of the primer: I know people that stopped using GW primers because they were unhappy with the results and use something else, which may be Army Painter, Vallejo or car primer (no joke). I also know people that exclusively use GW primers. Among the best painters out there (winning contests and so on) you will find both as well.

So yeah, try Army Painter and if you like it, keep it. Otherwise switch to something else.

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Burf    36

I've used Duplicolor Sandable Black/Grey since I started this hobby. 7$ per can. Perfect coverage. I've used it in the rain before and had no issues. GWs sprays are crazy overpriced.

Edited by Burf

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pseudonyme    17

@Aginor Don't really want to start a black vs. white primer war, but it's the first time I hear someone stating that white priming makes things more difficult.

 
Could you explain me what makes white priming difficult? 

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Aginor    126
2 minutes ago, pseudonyme said:

@Aginor Don't really want to start a black vs. white primer war, but it's the first time I hear someone stating that white priming makes things more difficult.

 
Could you explain me what makes white priming difficult? 

 

Sure!

If you use black primer and you ****** up a bit with your paint coats, you get dark "holes" where the coats are thin. those don't matter since normally they just fit with darker areas. The only real problem is that it is harder to get bright colors to look good. But in that case you just paint that area over with a thin coat of a bright color, that's it. In the areas you don't reach well during painting (such as the bottom, between the legs or something) you automatically have a dark area looking like a shadow.

If you use white primer, those "holes" are bright white. Your shade will not manage to get those much darker so you have to fix all of those during basecoating. Your bright colors (especially yellow and bright greens) look better on that IMO, more radiant. That's not impossible to achieve with black primed models, but harder.
But you still have the problem (just like with black) that for some colors - in this case it is the darker ones, which are probably the ones most people use more often - need several coats over the white to look good. You don't notice this effect much if you use thick colors (like unthinned  or lightly thinned GW colors). If you use thin coats though, or paints that are less thick in general (Vallejo or Army Painter), when carefully working up your gradients or so, you will notice it and it can be tedious.
You also have to carefully paint and shade all the darker areas on the underside of the miniature that would just be black using black primer. Those look unrealistically bright so you have to use more shade or darker colors on them.


That's basically the thing. But as you said: People use both, and there are almost religious feelings about that for some of us. The advantages and disadvantages of both are known, but many people just don't have problems with some or others, and it also comes down to what you are being used to. So opinions differ, that's ok. :)

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PowerCreep    4
1 hour ago, Aginor said:

I exclusively use Army Painter sprays for my Seraphon and Deathrattle.

Since I do lots of blue models (Skinks, Saurus) I even use the blue spray primer. That saves tons of work.

For the rest of the Seraphon (the big dinosaurs and so on) I use either black (more forgiving) or white (gives better results for bright colors IMO, but also makes things a bit harder). Many people use grey, which is between the two.

For my skeletons I use Skeleton Bone primer, which is awesome because all you have to do is shade them afterwards, no painting the bones, just the rest. I like it.


About the qualitiy of the primer: I know people that stopped using GW primers because they were unhappy with the results and use something else, which may be Army Painter, Vallejo or car primer (no joke). I also know people that exclusively use GW primers. Among the best painters out there (winning contests and so on) you will find both as well.

So yeah, try Army Painter and if you like it, keep it. Otherwise switch to something else.

The problem is I cant swich.

I am a teen and on a limited budget.

So do the citadel and army painter give diffrent results?

Edited by PowerCreep

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PowerCreep    4
57 minutes ago, Burf said:

I've used Duplicolor Sandable Black/Grey since I started this hobby. 7$ per can. Perfect coverage. I've used it in the rain before and had no issues. GWs sprays are crazy overpriced.

You dont understand my question.

I wmat to know if army painter one is at the same qualoty as gw

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Burf    36
24 minutes ago, PowerCreep said:

You dont understand my question.

I wmat to know if army painter one is at the same qualoty as gw

Which is answered perfecrly by 'an even cheaper type of spray than army painter's works great' sorry you couldn't handle extrapolating that.

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Aginor    126
1 hour ago, PowerCreep said:

You dont understand my question.

I wmat to know if army painter one is at the same qualoty as gw

I'd say yes.

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Gaz Taylor    575
1 hour ago, Burf said:

Which is answered perfecrly by 'an even cheaper type of spray than army painter's works great' sorry you couldn't handle extrapolating that.

+++ Mod Hat On +++

And you could have answered that in a friendlier way, especially towards somebody new. Please be more thoughtful in your posting in the future

18 hours ago, PowerCreep said:

I found an army painter Black Primer for a cheaper price then the GW one, so I was wondering do they have the same effect?

Pretty much but Army Painter Primers have a reputation for 'frosting up' models when being used (basically the finish is 'bitty' or lumpy). I think that's been fixed now but I've never been brave enough to try them. I'm a fan of the GW ones but if you are in the UK, I would try the Halford Primers as they are very good.

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halfords matt black does the trick for a good price, I have used GW and army painter before, not been able to tell much difference between the three.

 Been moving more to airbrush primer now as i don't have much outdoor space.

Edited by Thegiantpeanut

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Aginor    126
1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++

And you could have answered that in a friendlier way, especially towards somebody new. Please be more thoughtful in your posting in the future

Pretty much but Army Painter Primers have a reputation for 'frosting up' models when being used (basically the finish is 'bitty' or lumpy). I think that's been fixed now but I've never been brave enough to try them. I'm a fan of the GW ones but if you are in the UK, I would try the Halford Primers as they are very good.

 

Humidity related. I had that once and it sucks. Happens with GW as well.

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PowerCreep    4
1 hour ago, Aginor said:

 

Humidity related. I had that once and it sucks. Happens with GW as well.

Did you ever compare your seraphon (one with Army painter,other with GW)

Is there any diffrence?

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Aginor    126

I sprayed all the mass models of  my Seraphon blue so there was no GW alternative to test.

On black models I saw no real difference between GW and Army Painter. I haven't tested the white GW primer.

A friend of mine uses both black primers regularly and says Army Painter black primer dries faster and  feels a bit different on the model. Somehow.... thinner but more solid. He prefers it. But his other models look just as good, so... I guess it really doesn't matter.

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PowerCreep    4
45 minutes ago, Aginor said:

I sprayed all the mass models of  my Seraphon blue so there was no GW alternative to test.

On black models I saw no real difference between GW and Army Painter. I haven't tested the white GW primer.

A friend of mine uses both black primers regularly and says Army Painter black primer dries faster and  feels a bit different on the model. Somehow.... thinner but more solid. He prefers it. But his other models look just as good, so... I guess it really doesn't matter.

thanks!

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PowerCreep    4
45 minutes ago, Aginor said:

I sprayed all the mass models of  my Seraphon blue so there was no GW alternative to test.

On black models I saw no real difference between GW and Army Painter. I haven't tested the white GW primer.

A friend of mine uses both black primers regularly and says Army Painter black primer dries faster and  feels a bit different on the model. Somehow.... thinner but more solid. He prefers it. But his other models look just as good, so... I guess it really doesn't matter.

ALso (if you ahev the time) could you please measure the size of the caurnosaur (the length from tail to head) and the size of a warrior (from head to toe)?

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