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Order Draconis Post GHB 2017


Furiyen

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On 9/17/2017 at 1:41 AM, Furiyen said:

Interesting, but I wonder if the Mathhammer stacks up. If you retreat and charge you get +1 to wound and 2 damage instead of one... but lose out on a round of horse attacks. Meh...

Retreat and Charge is an interesting tactic that I've thought about a lot in the past in relation to my Chaos Knights.

For the record on Dragon Blades, they pretty much double their damage output if they charge. So over 2 turns of combat, you will likely end up at the same result, but there are some advantages as well:

A) It's one less turn where they're beating on your guys, meaning you are preserving your damage by being out of combat for a turn

B) You have the opportunity to engage more opportune targets

But it's a tactic that can only be used in certain circumstances IMO. Usually this circumstance is if you have the potential for the double turn. The best case is basically you retreat out, double turn, and then charge back in somewhere (May or may not be the same unit). But even if you don't get the double turn, you can do things to protect your unit from being charged in return such as retreating as far away as possible from the enemy, holding up the enemy with other units, or blocking enemy access to your unit with chaff.

 

In general, unless it's a particularly poor fight, retreating if you have the first turn in a battle round (explicitly with the intent to get your charge bonuses back) may not be the best idea unless you have mechanisms to ensure your unit won't be charged. This is because not only does the enemy have the turn immediately after, but they may in turn, win the initiative for the following battle round, double turning you and having a much better chance of getting into combat with your Knights.

 

For Order Draconis, I feel the 'pray for double turn', retreat as far as possible, and 1-2 punch are likely to be the most useful options. The 1-2 punch in particular, would be retreating out a unit but replacing it with a different unit (and hence, getting their charge bonuses). Then next turn, you might be doing the same thing again (Now the original unit charging in, while the other unit retreats out).

Chaff is not necessarily something you want to be spending allies points on (They're generally the least interesting units). That being said, some useful chaff options might be

Liberators : Tough, special weapon in unit adds some punch, largely immune to battleshock

Eternal Guard : Cheap chaff for the most part

Glade Guard : Adds some shooting into the army

Spire Guard : Mix between the Eternal Guard and Glade Guard. Adds a bit of shooting and toughness.

White Lions : Not really throwaway, but adds elite infantry statline into the army on the cheap. You can fit in 2 units and still have 100-120 points left over for something else (Perhaps a hero, or a Lion Chariot if you want to keep the theme).

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On 16/09/2017 at 7:06 PM, Furiyen said:

Ok, Question time.

My Army is has the allegiance, 'Ordo Draconis', and thus Dragon Blades are battle line units. Does this mean I don't get access to the Order Command Ability, Artifacts and Command Trait? Don't I have to have the Order Allegiance.

I have the GH2017 and GA: Order books, but I'm missing out one the whole 'if you dont have any allegiance abilities you can still take the Order one' paragraph.

Found my answer. GH2017, page 77 last paragraph. I can take the Order Allegiance while my faction is Order Draconis and Dragon Blades are battle line.

Its very, very confusing...

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On 18/09/2017 at 2:53 AM, someone2040 said:

Retreat and Charge is an interesting tactic that I've thought about a lot in the past in relation to my Chaos Knights.

For the record on Dragon Blades, they pretty much double their damage output if they charge. So over 2 turns of combat, you will likely end up at the same result, but there are some advantages as well:

A) It's one less turn where they're beating on your guys, meaning you are preserving your damage by being out of combat for a turn

B) You have the opportunity to engage more opportune targets

But it's a tactic that can only be used in certain circumstances IMO.........

Thanks for the great advice! It's something Inreally need to give some thought to, but as you say the it does have its uses!

Also, thanks for the advice on adding some chaff. At the moment I'm concentrating on learning my Order Draconis in the context of AoS, as it's very much a game of chess in terms of movement planning!

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  • 1 month later...

I was losing on objectives with the army.

I have started playing with:

Dragonlord
Dragonlord
5x Dragon Blades
5x Dragon Blades
5x Dragon Blades
5x Dragon Blased
Battalion 
Battalion

With the 400 points spare:
Loremaster (Hand of Glory on Dragon is great.)
Balewind Vortex (Handy for help holding objective while giving reach to Hand of Glory. Works well with Loremaster, who has save bonus in shooting round, making him harder to shoot off)
10 Shadow Warriors (Extra move in Deployment Phase helps get them to objective to take)

Only played one game so far, but I like it. I'm considering trading the Shadow Warriors for a Archmage on Horse for giving a shield to the dragons and a unit of Eternal Guard for holding objectives.

 

I do have some questions about the army though, I'm hoping some experienced players can help with: 

 

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I tend to side on having more dragons or behemoths.  Dropping 1 set of the dragon blades and a battalion gets you close to having enough for another dragonlord, which has more wounds and a better save than the blades.  I've had to learn not to send everything forward on the charge as it usually ends up going poorly for me unless I can get the key pieces of the enemy army removed, like the blood secrator.   Adding in a frostheart instead of the other dragonlord could also be beneficial and seems popular.  

So far as the Shadow Warriors go, you may think about Phoenix Guard.  They don't have the extra movement or shooting, but they will stay put based on their saves/ignoring of mortal wounds.  Saves you 40pts as well.

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On 19.9.2017 at 9:31 AM, Furiyen said:

Found my answer. GH2017, page 77 last paragraph. I can take the Order Allegiance while my faction is Order Draconis and Dragon Blades are battle line.

Its very, very confusing...

Thanks man! That one is really important for me! I initially thought this rule is no longer valid. Perfect. Saved my day. 

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18 hours ago, xspire said:

Interesting banner physics going on here

And lo, out of the mist of the early morning sun did they appear, a clashing cacophony of metal and beast, like dragon spirits of an age long past. The emerged at the canter, gathering immediate speed like an arrow shot at the heart of the enemy, grim resolute determination etched deeply in the lines of worn Aelven faces. At an unspoken command, the Champion leading levelled his runeblade at the enemy, while the riders around him simultaneously levelled Star-Heart tipped lances aimed to obliterate their enemies existence. In that moment, their standard pulled through the air as its bearer lowered his weapon, it seemed the dragon woven into the material lowered its head and charged headlong forward alongside the riders. They thundered forward, an unstoppable wall of steel force that would soon sunder the enemy in a display of savage skill that would please all the ancestor Dragon Spirits of old....”

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7 hours ago, Furiyen said:

And lo, out of the mist of the early morning sun did they appear, a clashing cacophony of metal and beast, like dragon spirits of an age long past. The emerged at the canter, gathering immediate speed like an arrow shot at the heart of the enemy, grim resolute determination etched deeply in the lines of worn Aelven faces. At an unspoken command, the Champion leading levelled his runeblade at the enemy, while the riders around him simultaneously levelled Star-Heart tipped lances aimed to obliterate their enemies existence. In that moment, their standard pulled through the air as its bearer lowered his weapon, it seemed the dragon woven into the material lowered its head and charged headlong forward alongside the riders. They thundered forward, an unstoppable wall of steel force that would soon sunder the enemy in a display of savage skill that would please all the ancestor Dragon Spirits of old....”

I mean, I was only joking around in the first place - but not sure how that quote explains the gravity defying banner haha

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12 hours ago, xspire said:

I mean, I was only joking around in the first place - but not sure how that quote explains the gravity defying banner haha

Not a quote, it’s was something I wrote on the spur of the moment to try and explain what’s going on with the modelling and the standard bearers at that precise moment in time.

Basically, the Dragon Blades have literally just lowered their lances to charge, and the standard bearer is slightly converted in that the Standard itself is Lance tipped.

Side note is that the Musicians are also similarly Lance armed.

I always thought it a little silly that GW intends a 5man cavalry unit with full command to only have two models displaying the units actual weapons. The Champion is believably armed with a magical runesword, but rest should all have lances imho.

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9 hours ago, Furiyen said:

Not a quote, it’s was something I wrote on the spur of the moment to try and explain what’s going on with the modelling and the standard bearers at that precise moment in time.

Basically, the Dragon Blades have literally just lowered their lances to charge, and the standard bearer is slightly converted in that the Standard itself is Lance tipped.

Side note is that the Musicians are also similarly Lance armed.

I always thought it a little silly that GW intends a 5man cavalry unit with full command to only have two models displaying the units actual weapons. The Champion is believably armed with a magical runesword, but rest should all have lances imho.

Ah right, cool piece of writing then. What I mean is, if you're moving forward like that the banner would wrap around the lance or it would flail and slap the rider in the face. Like I said I was originally joking, it just seems like I'm being pedantic now I've had to explain it.

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  • 3 months later...

Is anyone still playing this? Can you please enlighten me on how it plays and matches some mainstream armies? I am on a quest for a semi-legacy 2k army. I would like for it be aelvish, thematic ie. not mixed order and capable of holding its own against most other lists. I would especially like to be able to deal with basic SCE lists evolving from starter boxes like hammerstrike  etc.  at least 50/50.  A low model count is not a requirement but its definitely a bonus.

Dragonlord host ticks many of those boxes. I just don't know, if it is strong enough to not get smashed off the board by everyone. I would probably run two complete hosts with 2x DLs and 4x5 DBs and some allies. 

I have also been looking at Phoenix temple and Swifthawk agents, but there doesn't seem to be enough synergy between phoenixes and Phoenix guards and Swifthawks somehow look like they lack a punch. 

 

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It's still my primary force until I complete my DoK list.   The other person I know that runs this is Adam (aka @HadrielCaine)of the Hard6 podcast.    Chief thing at this moment is ditching the MSU 5 man units and running 2-10 packs and one 5.  The 10 gives it way more reliability in delivering the damage, otherwise you will lose numbers on your way into the charge.  Also, when running the battalion, don't put your general in that.  You need that model to outlive the first round for the rerolls it gives to the dragon blades.

Right now our lists differ in the usage of the last 100pts.  He's opted for the dragon noble with banner and I go for the balewind (for the loremaster to use).

 

Here is my list at the moment:

Dragon Lord - Polearm, shield, legendary fighter

Dragon Lord - Lance, Horn, quicksilver potion (this has been a key item)

Frostheart w/ annointed

Loremaster

10 dragon blades

10 dragon blades

5 dragon blades

Battalion

Balewind - summoned

Mortal wounds will always be a pain to deal with in this army.  You don't need to first turn charge against all opponents as sometimes they know to sit far enough back.  

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I can see why the unit of 10 is better.  I had 4 units of 5  because I wanted to include the battalion twice, but Forstheart looks really cool and I am sure the whole army looks much better with him. Loremaster looks tempting for its offensive capabilities. Have you tried to run more protective casters like archmage or sisters of thorn?

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I have.  In fact, I ran the archmage on horse and sisters for 3 games at a one-day event.  The offensive capabilities of the phoenix and the buffing from the Loremaster work better, I think.  Your dragon can take wounds, but the bite and breath attacks are what you want to keep going.  As the bite gets worse, the loremaster helps there.  The phoenix is super tanky and aside from the buffs, can be a good distraction while your dragons and blades do the work.

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On 26/02/2018 at 5:38 PM, Tyromancer said:

It's still my primary force until I complete my DoK list.   The other person I know that runs this is Adam (aka @HadrielCaine)of the Hard6 podcast.    Chief thing at this moment is ditching the MSU 5 man units and running 2-10 packs and one 5.  The 10 gives it way more reliability in delivering the damage, otherwise you will lose numbers on your way into the charge.  Also, when running the battalion, don't put your general in that.  You need that model to outlive the first round for the rerolls it gives to the dragon blades.

Right now our lists differ in the usage of the last 100pts.  He's opted for the dragon noble with banner and I go for the balewind (for the loremaster to use).

 

Here is my list at the moment:

Dragon Lord - Polearm, shield, legendary fighter

Dragon Lord - Lance, Horn, quicksilver potion (this has been a key item)

Frostheart w/ annointed

Loremaster

10 dragon blades

10 dragon blades

5 dragon blades

Battalion

Balewind - summoned

Mortal wounds will always be a pain to deal with in this army.  You don't need to first turn charge against all opponents as sometimes they know to sit far enough back.  

QFT. Order Draconis is very good with GHB17 allies allowance. 

Im playing it this weekend at Blood Tithe.  Will try to remember to report back. 

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I have been reading through the warscroll on the Dragonlord and I have an interesting question . . . 

If for whatever reason you run with the Dragonlord, may you still use your breath, as the rules specifically state that unit with a missile weapon may shoot. However, the Dragonfire ability is not a missile weapon, nor is it in the ranged profile.

What are your thoughts on this?

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@heywoah_twitch runs two dragonlords in a mixed order army and they have been very effective.

30 minutes ago, Slick_Kid said:

I have been reading through the warscroll on the Dragonlord and I have an interesting question . . . 

If for whatever reason you run with the Dragonlord, may you still use your breath, as the rules specifically state that unit with a missile weapon may shoot. However, the Dragonfire ability is not a missile weapon, nor is it in the ranged profile.

What are your thoughts on this?

Yes you can run and still use breath.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I'm going to be running these guys at LGT, BOBO and Heat 3. Feel I'm getting pretty good with them too. I expect the Frostheart will go up points wise in GHB18 and possibly the Dragonlord too. But I think they need to do something about battalion costs... so hoping I can cover it without changing the list too much.

Double dragon breathed a Gaunt Summoner off a balewind the other day which made me very happy. And @Tyromancer I still prefer the Dragon Noble to the Balewind ;)

They fared well at Blood Tithe. 4/5 wins. Only lost to Kroaknado (and a very good player). Mortal wounds are tough to deal with when you can't fight them. But this happened:

DXdwHV8XkAQX2N7.jpg

DXdwHV9XcAALstc.jpg

Super happy with best painted at such a cool event!

I made some match up cards for my team too (mine's top left):

DXS32kCW0AQps5w.jpg

You can hear more about my exploits with Order Draconis on episode 71 of Hard 6 podcast http://www.hard6.co.uk/

A.

 

 

 

 

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