order draconis Order Draconis Post GHB 2017

[Furiyen]

Ok, so, Order Draconis with Allies under the new GHB.

Having had a think on what I want to do  in AoS as a new player I realised I would be doing myself a complete injustice if I didn't play with Dragons and with lots of Cavalry, hence OD.

Models seem to be in short supply, but I would love to have a legacy army full of the miniatures I used to really like before embracing whatever comes next for the Highborn.

In terms of an army, what would you suggest?

I'm very keen on avoiding the cheese, so perhaps a Dragonlord and an allied Drakeseer with *alot* of Dragon Blades to flood the enemy with, rounded out with Mounted Dragon Nobles and a further allied horse-mounted Archmage?

Points wise, Dragon Blades seem to have had a massive points break to just 140pts for 5 of them, while the battalion seems not worthwhile at its points cost?

Your thoughts, comments and potential army lists are all welcome

[Xin]

Dragonlord  340

Dragon Baldes 140

Dargon Blades 140

Dragonlors host 180

800 points

I would say it is worth just for the reason of 1st turn chagre alone 

In 2000 poitns battle take 2x dragonlords host and have 400p to use. Could take 3rd Dragon lord for 3rd horn( and +3A for all) or some allies like shooty wanderes or mages 

[kozokus]

Completely missed the general discount on -60 for dragonlord and 20 for the blades.

That is pretty nice and curiously the cost of the whole formation is unchanged

I wonder if doest it makes it more dangerous in this edition.

Mighty poooower oooof the draaaaagonflame!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQVEAPjKae4

 

[Furiyen]

As much as I'm interested in Dragons, the thought of having just a complete wave of Dragon Blades washing over the enemy is very tempting.

1400pts buys 50 Dragon Blades. 50!

I was thinking that 30 seems about the right number, 2x units of 10 and 2x units of 5. That's the first 840 pts.

if I add two Dragonlords, I get to 1520. What sticks in the throat is paying for the battalion, when for the price of two I could ally in a Drakeseer for 3 Dragons!

[Nicard]

I too was thinking about running Order Draconis for this years General's Handbook. I know that previous lists would use multiple Quicksilver potions as an ultimate alpha strike list. Now that there is no stacking and that's not available - is it still a viable army to build around?

I would use 2 Dragon hosts, but I'm not sure how to fill out the remaining points. Phoenix? Waywatcher Lords? Another Dragon? Maybe 40 Skinks and a Priest to give me something to use in some of the missions?

 

[Xin]

Taking  Skinks you lose Dragon Blades as battleline, not woth it if you ask me. 

What I think is best and fluffy allies:

Another Dargonlord( 3x move) 

Hero on hores( reroll all attacks for Order Darconis) 

Dragon Mage( spells)

Glade Guards with Spellweaver ( shooty battleline)

Sisters of the Thorn( boosts Lords) 

Frostheart Phoenix( cos it's so good) 

[Furiyen]

14 hours ago, Nicard said:

 I know that previous lists would use multiple Quicksilver potions as an ultimate alpha strike list. Now that there is no stacking and that's not available - is it still a viable army to build around?

Am I right in thinking it's 1 Per Relic Type per army? Could you explain the no stacking part here, as well, please?

[Furiyen]

Meh, decided to dive right in and picked up a Dragon and a pair of Dragon Blade boxsets along with replacement bases. Have a Dragon Noble on the way and hopefully should have a few boxes of Dragon Blades by the weekend.

Busy Busy building!...

[hotboyronald]

So for Dragonlords, what is the better kit for him? Shield or Horn?  What should I be considering? 

[Furiyen]

Horn. Just looking at the math, its a potentially huge Force Multiplier.

Multiple Horns seem popular from the posts above, but there might be some call for going with a Shield on a 2nd Dragon Lord for tougher opponents.

 

[Furiyen]

Ok, my initial list to build towards:

Heroes:

Dragon Lord with Star Lance and Dragon Horn (General)

Dragon Noble with Phoenix Banner & Starblade

Dragon Noble with Star Lance and Enchanted Shield

10x Dragon Blades full command

10x Dragon Blades full command

5x Dragon Blades full Command

5x Dragon Blades full Command

5x Dragon Blades full Command

Allied: 

Drakeseer

Battalion:

1x Dragonlord Host

Total = 2000pts

 

Basic Idea:

Use the Dragon Lord and the 3x5 DBS in Batallion as Alpha Strike against weakest section of the enemy army.

Lead the 2x10 DB units with the Nobles in support to anvil the main enemy section, with support from the Alpha Strike force with its Warhorn bonus as the hammer blows.

Pheonix Banner for lots of juicy charge re-rolls.

Drakeseer to Breath & FotP harrying other chaff.

35 Knights and 2 Dragons should do *something* to the enemy ?

 

[Xin]

It could be hard for You to alpha strike without dragonlord host.  I still think that 2x DLH battalion(DL 2x5DB)  is a way to go. But try and let us know how it went.
Flames of phoenix could be trolly  

[Furiyen]

5 minutes ago, Xin said:

It could be hard for You to alpha strike without dragonlord host.  I still think that 2x DLH battalion(DL 2x5DB)  is a way to go. But try and let us know how it went.
Flames of phoenix could be trolly  

Sorry, forgot that was in the list. There is one Battalion in there, I'll need to declare which DB units are part of it but I can use it flexibly between games.

I could do with some suggestions on Artifacts / Command Traits?..

Edit: Yeah, Flames of the Pheonix seems like a complete laugh tbh

[someone2040]

Not that I'm necessarily super keen on spamming units, but you could do something like

2x Dragonlord

30x Dragonblades in either 2x10 and 4x5 or 1x10 5x5 or 6x5

Archmage on Horse

2x Dragonlord Host

3 Drop army, Archmage on Horse can keep up and provide a mild buffer with Elemental Shield. You can use the double dragonlord host to alpha strike turn 1 or go for the double turn if they deploy off the line.

That being said, the army is a bit 1 dimensional due to all-inning on the Dragonlord Host. It's a bit gimmicky and 1 dimensional, and I guess if you're going in to win, maybe it's your best choice. Personally, I think dropping one Dragonlord Host for 10 Swordmasters offers an interesting choice. If you take the Dragonblades in 10s, you can get the army down to 4 drops (Although, I think you're probably better off at 6 drops with 1x10 and 4x5 for more flexibility with your Dragon Blades). The Swordmasters give you a bit of rend if it matters, and a unit which you can sit on an objective.

[Furiyen]

Built:

10x Dragon Blades

Owned:

25x Dragon Blades

1x Dragon Lord

Ordered:

10x Dragon Blades

1x Dragon Lord

2x Dragon Nobles

 

Yeah, this army is coming together fast!

[Aelfric]

You could consider allies of 30 Eternal Guard with a Spellweaver to bring them back from the dead ( she also has a guaranteed unbind ) - park them on an objective and they're hard to shift - all for 290 points.  Add a Waywatcher Lord for an extra 100 points and they'll be even harder to shift. You can still run double Dragonlord Host.

[WABBIT]

The Wanderers Spellweavers spell only resurrects wanderers. Sorry.

[Furiyen]

Ok, so, got to enjoy my first ever game of AoS, with my newly minted 500pt army of Order Draconis.

 

• 1x Dragon Noble - Starblade, Pheonix Banner
• 5x Dragon Nobles
• 5x Dragon Nobles
• 5x Dragon Nobles

vs.

• 1x Lord-Celestant on Dracoth using a Tempestos Hammer and Sigmarite Shield
• 1x Lord-Relictor
• 10x Liberators.

 

I was introduced to Take & Hold as a mission, but I had other ideas - Charge, Charge and Charge again. Then I found out just how tough those SE can be, despite executing the perfect 15 Knight charge on the single unit of Liberators! My absolutely abysmal dice rolling didn't help, with the first two units failing to cause any wounds. The third unit, with Re-rolls to hit from the Noble, then went and killed 5 Liberators with the 2-damage-on-the-charge-Lances.

The Noble tried to take on the Lord-Relictor, and despite making a 11" charge (that Phoenix Banner is soooo good), bounced in another round of rubber swords, and died over two battle rounds thanks to the Relictors prayers and occasional wound.

*Sigh* Then the Dracoth stepped in, and the War of Attrition began, with the SE whittling my units down despite their relative resilience.

In the end, I learned a few things

• My army is incredibly fast. Even without the battalion, I went 2nd during the first battle round, so with a 12" move and then re-rolling charges from the banner it was a 1st turn alpha-strike on the Liberators for me.
• Attrition really can erode my forces. I quickly discovered that retreating to charge in again in the next Battle-round was very worthwhile, if I could keep the enemy forces pinned in place with a sacrificial lamb.
• Rolling lots and lots of dice is good. Getting re-rolls on that ton of dice is ace, so if I want to bring down something like the Dracoth riding Lord-Celestant I need to get more units in at once, on the charge.
• I need Rend and  Mortal Wounds in my army to chew through some of that armor. I mistakenly read the equipment options for the Noble, so having no Enchanted Shield was a major defensive loss, and after that game Star Lance > Star Blade. I was seduced by the 6 attacks! However, cue a re-model for Star Lance, Enchanted Shield and a Phoenix Banner. I'll be introducing my first Dragon Lord at 1000 points for more Rend & Mortal Wounds from Dragon fire.
• My units have Champions, Standard Bearers and Musicians all modelled. Remember the rules for them, because their free bonuses!

It was a really fun game, escaping a Dracoth charge when it rolled snake eyes was fun, and my Noble making his charge against the Relictor was fun.

Now busy building my army to be able to play 1000 Points! This will look like:

• Dragon Lord - General, Dragon Lance, Enchanted Shield, Obstinate Blade, Master of Defense 340pts
• Dragon Noble - Star Lance, Enchanted Shield, Phoenix Banner 100pts
• 5x Dragon Blades - Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician 140pts
• 5x Dragon Blades - Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician 140pts
• 5x Dragon Blades - Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician 140pts
• 5x Dragon Blades - Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician 140pts
• 1000pts total

15 Knights on the battlefield was very imposing at 500pts, a Dragonlord and 20 of the noblest sons of Order Draconis should be an awe inspiring sight!

[WABBIT]

After your first charge and round of combat can you get a cheap resilient unit (allies) to pin the enemy in combat while you retreat your dragon blades so they can charge again the following  turn? I guess the problem is by then you've lost a turn of fighting. Unfortunately AoS does not support the long game very well. Its mosh quick or lose.

[Aelfric]

On 10/09/2017 at 10:17 PM, WABBIT said:

The Wanderers Spellweavers spell only resurrects wanderers. Sorry.

Eternal Guard are Wanderers.  Didn't mean to imply that Spellweaver could bring back others. Sorry for any confusion.

[WABBIT]

5 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Eternal Guard are Wanderers.  Didn't mean to imply that Spellweaver could bring back others. Sorry for any confusion.

Yes sorry I just wanted to be clear it wouldn't work on the Dragon blades which is a big shame as they are expensive 2 wound models. D3 8pts models seems hardly worth it.

[Furiyen]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

After your first charge and round of combat can you get a cheap resilient unit (allies) to pin the enemy in combat while you retreat your dragon blades so they can charge again the following  turn? I guess the problem is by then you've lost a turn of fighting. Unfortunately AoS does not support the long game very well. Its mosh quick or lose.

Interesting, but I wonder if the Mathhammer stacks up. If you retreat and charge you get +1 to wound and 2 damage instead of one... but lose out on a round of horse attacks. Meh...

[Furiyen]

Ok, Question time.

My Army is has the allegiance, 'Ordo Draconis', and thus Dragon Blades are battle line units. Does this mean I don't get access to the Order Command Ability, Artifacts and Command Trait? Don't I have to have the Order Allegiance.

I have the GH2017 and GA: Order books, but I'm missing out one the whole 'if you dont have any allegiance abilities you can still take the Order one' paragraph.

[HadrielCaine]

Here's my list for GHB2017:

Allegiance: Order

Leaders

Dragonlord (340)

- General
- Command Trait : Tenacious - Shield & Dragon Lance
- Artefact : Phoenix Stone

Dragonlord (340)

- War Horn & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Quicksilver Potion

Dragon Noble (100)

- Phoenix Banner

Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (240)

Loremaster (100)
Units
10 x Dragon Blades (280)

10 x Dragon Blades (280)

5 x Dragon Blades (140) 

Battalions
Dragonlord Host (180)

Total: 2000/ 2000 Points

I can't wait to play them!

The dragonlord did well allied with Sylvaneth gnarlroot in place of Durthu today. 

Need to get painting. 

 

A. 

[Aelfric]

9 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Yes sorry I just wanted to be clear it wouldn't work on the Dragon blades which is a big shame as they are expensive 2 wound models. D3 8pts models seems hardly worth it.

Yes, it would be nice. but it does give you an 80 point wizard for mystic shield as well, although other equally cheap options are available for that from  Sylvaneth.  I've only run a Dragonlord host as part of a mixed Aelvan army, so really not sure how a pure Draconis army would pan out.  I suppose I would tend towards either Eternal guard etc or a Drakeseer and just go for it.