Jump to content

Let's Chat: Nighthaunt


Rid

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 854
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

So just to bring up what I was saying before about Frightful Touch maybe being on the warscrolls in the battletome, and the Soul Wars ones simply being temporary. This has come up concerning the Sequitors.

What was initially previewed and appears in the SW box: AOSFFStormcast2-June6-Warscroll2ny.jpg

And what has been (I can only assume mistakenly) put on the website:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//ENG_Stormcast_Sequitors.pdf

What is a redemption cache which the prime can take if use mace/shield blade/shield and why are there no rule for it on the scroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

What is a redemption cache which the prime can take if use mace/shield blade/shield and why are there no rule for it on the scroll

There is a page 2.

Its basically 4+ to deal a mortal wound to a death or chaos unit within 6". Probably the model with the ghost trap we saw an oversized sculpt of from that convention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, during the Stormcast podcast, they were talking about their favorite new 'summonable' units in the new edition for Death to bring back during the game.

The guy they were interviewing listed "Spirit Hosts" as one of the two summonable units.  Dunno how official we can take that, but it sounds like Spirit Hosts will have the summonable keyword as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Nevar said:

Hey guys, during the Stormcast podcast, they were talking about their favorite new 'summonable' units in the new edition for Death to bring back during the game.

The guy they were interviewing listed "Spirit Hosts" as one of the two summonable units.  Dunno how official we can take that, but it sounds like Spirit Hosts will have the summonable keyword as well.

Spirit hosts already have the summonable keyword.  Even if the nighthaunt book has different spirit host rules, their rules in LoN armies will remain the same, including being summonable units 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/18/2018 at 9:21 PM, Sception said:

I doubt nighthaunt will have a lot of built in healing, given their ethereal saves.  I'm more curious about alternate deployment methods for nighthaunt summonable units, which will more likely appear in the allegiance rules rather than directly on the warscrolls.

I reread the summoning rules for the wizard and spirit torment. The wizard’s spell says summable night haunts while the spirit torment’s ability says nighthaunt units.

 

My reading of the spirit torment is that it can heal heros too. Is this the case?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I reread the summoning rules for the wizard and spirit torment. The wizard’s spell says summable night haunts while the spirit torment’s ability says nighthaunt units.

 

My reading of the spirit torment is that it can heal heros too. Is this the case?

Seems like that is how it will work.  With keywords you just need that keyword and if it says "Nighthaunt" then that includes everything with that Keyword.

Although I didn't even know Spirit Hosts were summonable, so what do I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Here's a thought; if we do end up with a -- IF Nighthaunt allegiance all NH gain Frightful Touch on unmodified roll of a 6-- would that not also apply to the Mourngul?

I think this is very unlikely to happen, otherwise there is no reason for spirit hosts to cost the points they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Keldaur said:

I think this is very unlikely to happen, otherwise there is no reason for spirit hosts to cost the points they do.

Uhm... unless they cost the same because they know they will get the naughty touch in the battle tome?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose all the other units we have not yet seen could all have Mortal Wound production.

Technically Grimghasts make MWs with their bell.  Guardian of Souls can Arcane Bolt/Other Lore.  Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts do it already, and so does the Banshee.  If the Bladegheists  and riders have mortal wound production than Nighthaunt would still technically have nearly all MW potential in majority of their units.

I am hoping for a NH wide trait, that could make a lot of our units that everyone is pretty 'meh' about suddenly a lot less disappointing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nevar said:

Uhm... unless they cost the same because they know they will get the naughty touch in the battle tome?

The point i am making is that there are a lot of new units with much better attack profiles and better costed. It would make zero sense to use spirit hosts in a world where you could get grimghasts if they can do MW with a decent attack profile and possible rerolls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

The point i am making is that there are a lot of new units with much better attack profiles and better costed. It would make zero sense to use spirit hosts in a world where you could get grimghasts if they can do MW with a decent attack profile and possible rerolls.

Except Spirit Hosts can also be much more tanky and have more attacks overall.  Spirit Hosts have 54 attacks when maxed out, Grimghasts for instance have 59 attacks on 1 wound models.  You lose attacks more reliably as you lose Grimghasts where Spirit Hosts hold onto them a lot more.  Spirit Hosts are also more resilient to Battle shock, being nearly immune especially if you don't max them out.

We also do not know the full extent of the new Nighthaunt, there could very well be other elements that would make them better.  Perhaps our new version of deep-striking or deployment favors Spirit Hosts in some way.  I do not know.

Either way I am not completely disagreeing with you, if you read the comments I had for Neck-Romantic you can see that I also agree that they could already reasonably consider our army MW heavy even without some battle tome trait, especially if the rest of the unspoiled units have means of producing them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Nevar said:

Except Spirit Hosts can also be much more tanky and have more attacks overall.  Spirit Hosts have 54 attacks when maxed out, Grimghasts for instance have 59 attacks on 1 wound models.  You lose attacks more reliably as you lose Grimghasts where Spirit Hosts hold onto them a lot more.  Spirit Hosts are also more resilient to Battle shock, being nearly immune especially if you don't max them out.

We also do not know the full extent of the new Nighthaunt, there could very well be other elements that would make them better.  Perhaps our new version of deep-striking or deployment favors Spirit Hosts in some way.  I do not know.

Either way I am not completely disagreeing with you, if you read the comments I had for Neck-Romantic you can see that I also agree that they could already reasonably consider our army MW heavy even without some battle tome trait, especially if the rest of the unspoiled units have means of producing them.

I could do it with other units aswell, but let's do it just with the Grimghasts if everyone had MWs on 6s.

Points per wound  

No horde bonus ---  GG (Grimghasts) 14     SH (Spirit hosts) 13.3   ---> Minimal advantadge for spirit hosts non horde

Horde bonus --- GG 12    SH 13.33    

Average MW per 100 points spent:

GG no rerolls --- 2.38 MW  

GG rerolls --- 3.56 MWs

SH ---  2.5 MW

Regular wounds per 100 points spent:

GG no rerolls --- 2.38  rend -1 wounds

GG rerolls --- 2.78 rend -1 wounds

SH --- 2.5 no rend wounds

Yeah, there could be changes to the warscroll and other stuff, so we are mostly just guessing. I am working with what we currently have in stock, but i actually think that army wide FT would be too powerful. I used GGs as an example, but chainrasps would be completely crazy, we are talking about 4.16 MW per 100 points spent by default.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

I could do it with other units aswell, but let's do it just with the Grimghasts if everyone had MWs on 6s.

Points per wound  

No horde bonus ---  GG (Grimghasts) 14     SH (Spirit hosts) 13.3   ---> Minimal advantadge for spirit hosts non horde

Horde bonus --- GG 12    SH 13.33    

Average MW per 100 points spent:

GG no rerolls --- 2.38 MW  

GG rerolls --- 4.01 MWs

SH ---  2.5 MW

Regular wounds per 100 points spent:

GG no rerolls --- 2.38  rend -1 wounds

GG rerolls --- 2.78 rend -1 wounds

SH --- 2.5 no rend wounds

Yeah, there could be changes to the warscroll and other stuff, so we are mostly just guessing. I am working with what we currently have in stock, but i actually think that army wide FT would be too powerful. I used GGs as an example, but chainrasps would be completely crazy, we are talking about 4.16 MW per 100 points spent by default.

The debate isn't if it is OP or not, the reason people are all abuzz is because GW said Nighthaunt was going to be particularly adept at causing Mortal Wounds.  The fact that none of our units have had the naughty touch is making people ask why GW would say that when we don't really cause more than other armies.

The Grimghasts have the bell, but units like stormcasts have things like Star Soul maces that don't even need to roll to hit.  Chainrasps have no apparent way to cause them even if that is fine for a Battleline horde.  Knight of Shrouds on horse doesn't do MWs, neither does Executioner.  Guardian of Souls doesn't do them natively, neither does the Myrmourn Banshees or the Glaivewraiths.  So far, the Grimghast bell leader is the only new thing that features MWs. 

The Storm Casts have more MW production in the Soul Wars box than us.  So the question is -why- is GW saying we will be a MW featured army when nothing new has featured that except one model in one unit?

The best idea we have is some kind of army wide special rule, or as I was pointing out, if -all- of the other units we have yet to see had means of doing MWs then they could potentially still claim this is a MW army.  Or maybe they were just referring only to Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths, but that seems unlikely.

It could be a command ability or something, but everything is wild speculation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I dont see any other way for GW's claims for NH to still have FT be their primary source of damage be true without this being the case..

It was true of the Nighthaunt army as of LoN, and the first faction focus only mentions FT prior to the "in the new edition" section. Where else have GW mentioned it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are 8 units we don't know about yet. And i am not trying to debate wether it would be OP (i take that for granted), my point is that what people is hoping for is highly unlikely because it would be very powerfull.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So without the mortal wound generator, there's really no point in half these new units right? Current units can do the same thing but better. They seem pretty weak at first glance compared to those of other armies or of current NH units. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

So without the mortal wound generator, there's really no point in half these new units right? Current units can do the same thing but better. They seem pretty weak at first glance compared to those of other armies or of current NH units. 

I wouldn't go that far. There is a lot of use for some of the heroes especially with their command ability.  Chain Rasps seem less effective than Skeletons or Dire Wolves, but Grimghasts for instance seem better than Grave Guard.

They are just not as "WOW" good as the new Golden Boys are.  The Sacrosanct Chamber makes Nighthaunt look like chumps right now if there is nothing more to it.  The units themselves are actually pretty good in Legions of Nagash for instance, but as a stand alone army they will be less good unless there is something further.  Which you can assume since there is a Battle Tome coming.

Keldaur is trying to dissuade people from getting their hopes up on an army wide Mortal Wounds rule because he does not think there will be one is all.

Either way everything right now is speculations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...