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Let's Chat: Nighthaunt


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8 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

 

Spirit Host and hexwraith are still battleline in nighthaunt alliance armies but you have no way to heal or ressurect models in nighthaunt armies (no gravesites no deathly invocation on heros)

Yeah and Danse Macaroni works on them well, too. With the Mourngul nerf I'm not finding a lot of reason to run pure Nighthaunt. 

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51 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

 

Spirit Host and hexwraith are still battleline in nighthaunt alliance armies but you have no way to heal or ressurect models in nighthaunt armies (no gravesites no deathly invocation on heros)

You can splash Soulblight as allies (Vampire Lord and Coven Throne) which can heal "Summonable" units.

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I'm not sure how much I'll be taking out my Nighthaunt army as a night haunt army anymore. One one hand, nearly everything getting frightful does make Nighthaunt hit a lot harder, which has always been my problem with Nighthaunt. They had a lot of trouble dealing damage with either - or -1 rend and Spirithosts were my damage dealers. Now I should have some better damage output, but at the same time there's not a whole lot of reason to go pure Nighthaunt.

Pros of Pure Nighthaunt:

1. Can take the Moungul, but not as strong of a pro as before

2. Being able to deep strike anywhere on the board, not just the edges or gravesites, with as many units as you want is maybe more versatile and not as vulnerable to edge blocking.

3. The Cairne Wraith and Tomb Banshee count for the Black Coach's ability

Cons of Pure Nighthaunt:

1. Far less access to healing. Can still get some with allied vampire lords

2. Restrictive allies list

3. Little to no magic

Pros of Nighthaunt with Legions:

1. Access to healing and returning models.

2. Can mix in a larger selection of other units. Beyond the Mourngul, Shadespire warband, and compendium stuff you can include anything death in your army in some way except the abhorrent ghoul king on Zombie Dragon who exceeds the allies cap

3. With access to better mix of units(i.e. not running pure Nighthaunt, but with Legion abilities and traits) more magic stuff.

4. Access to all the neat stuff in any of the new Legions, wont list them all, but they all bring something new.

Cons of Nighthaunt with Legions:

1. Once you start mixing in non-Nighthaunt stuff, you'll need to take new battleline, which is a minimum 180 point tax(3 min units of zombies or dire wolves).

2. No Mourngul. Less of a loss game wise, but disappointing if you have the model.

3. You lose the Black Coach ability with Cairn Wraiths and Tomb Banshees.

 

I think I could convince myself that either is better than the other, but I think it's probably a wash. Before the GHB 2017 dropped, I liked the Nighthaunt models and aesthetic, but to them in a GA Death army, there was just too much that was needed to make a GA Death army work that wasn't Nighthaunt that I wouldn't really be running much of a Nighthaunt army. The allegiance stuff adding giving them a bit of their own flavor as well as battlelines helped and I built my army. My biggest gripe was limited allies so as soon as I dropped in say a Necromancer or Mortis Engine, I've now got to pay the battleline tax and I lose my cool thematic Nighthaunt traits and abilities and and stuck with GA Death. That's still basically the case, but I'm much more willing to pay my 180 point zombie tax for battleline and lose my Nighthaunt stuff now that the Legions are basically still work on largely GA Death armies, but bring much more to the table than grand alliance allegiance in general does. I'm sure I'll probably be oscillating between Nighthaunt and Legion of Night for a while. If Nighthaunt does get a book, that's great I'll almost certainly get it, but I'm not going to get my hopes up and will operate assumption one is not coming.

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With the new FAQ available, I am toying with the idea of this 1000 point list for a pure Nighthaunt army.

Knight of the Shroud (120 pts) – Cloaked in Shadow (-1 Hit in Shooting)

Cairn Wraith (60 pts) - Pendant of the Fell Wind (+3” move)

Cairn Wraith (60 pts)

Hexwraith x 5 (160 pts)

Spirit Host x 6 (240 pts)

Mourngul (350 pts)

In general, the idea is to close the distance between armies and keep the army tight to benefit from the Knight's command ability and the Mourngul's debuff.  I played around with the idea of using banshees, but with only one bravery debuff available, I felt the cairn wraith attacks would synergize better with the command ability.  Hoping to give it a test drive in the near future and will report back once that happens.

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On 28/02/2018 at 12:12 AM, bsharitt said:

snip

are LON powerful with healing changes? yes

did we have healing before? No, so really they havent got any worse (cheaper mourngul = more heros or spirit hosts, frightful touch on heaps more units)

really its got better with KoS and potential of some healing with some allies. (i use arkhan as an ally so ill get some healing there)

I still plan on playing them for this years tournament season, a whole army that flies and ignores rend is still very powerful imo

with 3 tournaments im sitting @ 31st / 250+ on the AOS rankings in Australia, Nighthaunt shouldn't be discounted i feel

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14 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I just wish we had 1 or 2 more units to choose from. (And I dont think the coach really fits tbh)

end of the day we dont, i take wraiths, hosts & mournguls with arkhan and it works

a chaff unit would be amazing but oh well, just focus on what they do well

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@Kharnige i need to test some lists with the changes of points & KoS being released but thinking ill run this (50 person tournament end of the month)


Knight of Shrouds (120)
- General
- Trait: Cloaked in Shadow 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Cairn Wraith (60)
Cairn Wraith (60)
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- Allies
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
Mourngul (350)
Mourngul (350)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 320 / 400

my other thoughts are drop a unit of 3 or 2 more wraiths or make the 6 a unit of 9 with the KoS, im hesitant because the army really struggles in scorched earth and im thinking 9 might be a big investment in one place and loose some flexibility 
 

open to others thoughts

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Hi! I'm totally new to AoS but I'm looking at putting together a 1000 point Nighthaunts list. Even though I'm not really considering a black coach but I was wondering whether it still counts for deathless spirits. It does have the hero keyword. I'm also wondering why it seems to be so unpopular... is it just the model?

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Josh thanks for the list. Love the theme synergy of Arkhan and KoS, just wish they would add Nighthaunt to Arkhan.

I would really appreciate to hear your findings from the tournament.

I like the look of the list and have gone for a second Mourngul and just need to get more Spirit Hosts and Arkhan.

I also noticed that with the reduced cost of Mourngul that in a 1K army the list could be 1 Cairn Wraith, 2 Spirit Hosts and 2 Mourngul for exactly 1000pts! Is this just a pipe dream or could this be great?

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@Kharnige yeah i think it will have good and bad match ups but thats life, some heals may help things prior to GHON dropping

yeah see how things go, i feel like there will be some cutting edge stuff there & expect to be mid tables, but i might pull some thing out of my butt lol

i think even 1 is overkill in 1000 pts

i usually run this in 1000 pts

Knight of Shrouds (120)
- General
- Trait: Cloaked in Shadow 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Cairn Wraith (60)
Cairn Wraith (60)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Total: 960 / 2000

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@Josh well I hope it goes well. Nighthaunt seem really underrated but has a great combination of survivability and damage output (especially with Spirit Hosts and Keldrek).  From what I have tested, they have a comparable output to beefed up Bloodletters (in terms of MW output with the caveat of how many can usually fit in combat).

When you say overkill... do you mean overkill good or overall bad re: Mourngul...

Your 1000pts does look more feasible though.

A Nighthaunt release would be great. I am finding that there are a few "Spirit Host borrowing" models around that are not Nighthaunt which I would really like to be centralised (Arkhan + Mortis Engine) - even Nagash has some! Is this more of a theme or just a coincidence insomuch as they are just "spirits"?

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