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Let's Chat: Nighthaunt


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Have not seen it brought up yet.

While the Black Coach has the HERO keyword, it no longer has the battlefield role of Leader.

Are there any other models in the game that have HERO but are not Leaders? Even Assassins are both (despite their WFB rules stating otherwise :P ) Given its placement on the unit list, I think the loss of Leader was intentional. Maybe it was not supposed to keep the HERO keyword? Or maybe its just a weird unit?

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Just spitballing, but I'm thinking about supplementing some of the stuff I'll be picking up for a Legion of Sacrament army to a straight Nighthaunt army.  I would need to still pick up a second Mournghul, but is there anything else I should sub in over a second Mournghul? I love the idea of fielding two now.  Lower cost and better redundancy. Can start out with one or two or summon one or both.

Frankly, I like the idea of popping units via the Cairn Wraith and the Ethereal Leader ability over the grave sites n the Legion allegiance. I have to roll, but I can keep the Wraith safe instead of moving it into danger and also have more versatility in terms of where to drop things. No healing without the grave sites... but the Vampire Lord/Coven can heal... and no Mournghul(s) in the Legion either. 

Leaders

Knight of Shrouds (120) - General

Cairn Wraith (60)

Vampire Lord (140)

Coven Throne (260)

Units

5 x Hexwraiths (160)

5 x Hexwraiths (160)

5 x Hexwraiths (160)

3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Behemoths

Mourngul (350)

Mourngul (350)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Allies: 400 / 400 Leaders:

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32 minutes ago, Josh said:

whats your plan with how the army works? what command trait & item are you using too?

Honestly, the foremost thing in my mind is the versatility. You can airdrop half of the army down, or deploy it all. The Mournghuls can be taken as summoning points so both of them can be in the sky as well as almost all of the Hosts and Hexwraiths, so it's a high Alpha Strike list... but if you Alpha Strike everything you'll lose buffs and heals.

If  playing against Alpha Strike or fast moving army, I'd likely field everything on the table except maybe the Mournghuls?...  Can't let the Wraith get deleted too fast! I think it would be a case by case basis, based on opponents honestly.

For the trait I was thinking to re-roll Ethereal Rulers trait. I'm all over the place on the Artefact, I was thinking the one that can make the KoS a Wizard.

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Kind of a question dump, so I apologize if these have been addresses or discussed already somewhere in this thread or elsewhere.

1.  Since the Knight of Shrouds is not in the Legions of Nagash Battletome, how does he work with any of the new legions?  It can be the general based on the Harbinger rules, but I do not believe it can use any of the artifacts or command abilities since it cannot be assigned the appropriate Legion keyword.

2.  If playing a Nighthaunt faction list with the new ethereal rule, is the Cloaked in Shadow command trait (+1 general's save) useless? (Credit Neck-Romantic for asking the question first)

3.  As of right now, the Knight of Shrouds does not count for the Ethereal Rulers Battle Trait.  Correct?

 

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23 minutes ago, Equinox said:

Kind of a question dump, so I apologize if these have been addresses or discussed already somewhere in this thread or elsewhere.

1.  Since the Knight of Shrouds is not in the Legions of Nagash Battletome, how does he work with any of the new legions?  It can be the general based on the Harbinger rules, but I do not believe it can use any of the artifacts or command abilities since it cannot be assigned the appropriate Legion keyword.

2.  If playing a Nighthaunt faction list with the new ethereal rule, is the Cloaked in Shadow command trait (+1 general's save) useless? (Credit Neck-Romantic for asking the question first)

3.  As of right now, the Knight of Shrouds does not count for the Ethereal Rulers Battle Trait.  Correct?

 

1: that is correct.  Per it's own rules, the Knight of Shrouds can be taken as an ally in any Death army regardless of specific faction, and if taken as an ally it may be the general.  However, it may only have command traits or artefacts if it shares the keyword of the army's chosen faction.  So if you play with the Nighthaunt or Grand Alliance: Death allegiance abilities, then the Knight of Shrouds may have command abilities and an artefact, but if you don't than it may not.

2. As of this moment, the Cloaked in Shadow command trait in the Nighthaunt Allegiance has no in-game effect.  you can take it, but because of the new ethereal rule wording it doesn't actually do anything.

3. The Knight of Shrouds does not count for Ethereal Rulers, which very specifically only applies to cairne wraith and tomb banshee units.

There is still an open, unanswered question of whether an allied Knight of Shrouds can be the general in a Legions of Nagash army that includes that Legion's named character.  For instance, Nagash in a Grand Host of Nagash army or Arkhan in a Legion of Sacrament army.  There is a specific-vs-specific conflict between the Legions of Nagash rules where such characters must be the general if included in their legions and the Malign Portents rules that say the harbingers can always be the general of any army that includes them.

Additionally, we might see errata to the Nighthaunt rules correcting the Cloaked in Shadow and lack of Ethereal Ruler for Knight of Shrouds issues.  If we don't see errata correcting such obvious issues, I would take that as a strong indication that we'll be seeing a Nighthaunt Battletome sooner rather than later.  Though others might take such lack of correction of obvious problems as a sign that the Nighthaunt Allegiance is going to be dropped as a stand-alone thing altogether, so there's not a lot that can be done apart from waiting.

We should be seeing the first official errata/faq for Death stuff following Legions of Nagash within the next week or so.

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Just now, Couchatron said:

My biggest question about Cloaked in Shadow is whether or not the Etheral rule is only active during the course of the game. If so, they may rule that Cloaked in Shadow works because the effect is applied before the game began.

In all likelihood it'll change to 'reroll save rolls of 1' or something. That being said, it does look like Nighthaunt needs a rework almost entirely. 

I'm actually considering just starting Nighthaunt and seeing what the future brings. I really want a dread fleet army! 

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1 minute ago, RaritanAnon said:

In all likelihood it'll change to 'reroll save rolls of 1' or something. That being said, it does look like Nighthaunt needs a rework almost entirely. 

I'm actually considering just starting Nighthaunt and seeing what the future brings. I really want a dread fleet army! 

Probably, but GW has done crazier things.

 

I played 3 games this past weekend with my Nighthaunt army and did fairly well. They still do what they say on the tin and the Mourngul was still solid as hell, even without his 4+ FnP.  With that being said, it did leave something to be desired. Wish we had DI on our Nighthaunt heroes, and gravesites would be a huge blessing as well.

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1 minute ago, Couchatron said:

Probably, but GW has done crazier things.

 

I played 3 games this past weekend with my Nighthaunt army and did fairly well. They still do what they say on the tin and the Mourngul was still solid as hell, even without his 4+ FnP.  With that being said, it did leave something to be desired. Wish we had DI on our Nighthaunt heroes, and gravesites would be a huge blessing as well.

Yeah that's true. I've heard Nighthaunt works well but it's sorta like eating cake without icing. It works but it's not a sugary delight. 

The issue with giving Wraiths and Banshees deathly invocation is that they're ridiculously cheap. So they'd only get 'pick one'. Which I suppose would be fine,  considering a Nighthaunt army isn't exactly spamming. I dunno. 

I've been fiddling with the idea of running a Nighthaunt themed Legions list, which is basically all nighthaunt except for some Dire wolves and a Vampire/Necromancer, substituting the Morghast for the Mourngul. The rest is all Hexwraiths and spirit hosts and the like. It sounds like a good idea. In theory at least. 

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i think there might be some little tweaks with this years GHB but i dont see us getting a book imo

nighthaunt are still an awesome army, when played right they are very strong.

Not to sound like a ****** but I came 25th in a 104 person event in January with them & im going to keep playing them this year.  Would they be stronger with grave sites & characters that heal? Of course but that isnt the cards we have been delt so just focus on the good stuff (fly, ignore rend, mortal wound potential)

im going to another 40-50 person event in april so keen to see how i go :)

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So I'm just starting AoS and I can't decide between Nighthaunt and doing something like Deathrattle+ghosts. Both skeletons and ghosts are great and I love the new Knight of Shrouds model. 

My idea was to start with Nighthaunt, since they're perfect for small points games and then eventually expand into bone zone when I get to 2000. 

So the idea is, with a -1 to hit from Cloaked in Shadow (from the new faq) and -1 to wound from the Cloak on the Knight, I hope he stays alive long enough to make ample use of his command ability.  I like the changes to the black coach and I have a cool idea for converting one out of the garden of Morr set. They're decently tanky and can hit pretty hard. The buffs are just a bonus, and, they count as a hero for objectives. No idea on a paint scheme yet but I do like the unearthly green from the Nialakh look. What do you think? Start Nighthaunt, transition into LoN, maybe Legion of Blood? 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Knight of Shrouds (120)
- General
- Trait: Cloaked in Shadow 
- Artefact: Cloak of the Waxing Moon 
Cairn Wraith (60)
Cairn Wraith (60)
Tomb Banshee (80)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
1 x Black Coach (120)

Total: 1000 / 1000 
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62

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4 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So the idea is, with a -1 to hit from Cloaked in Shadow (from the new faq) and -1 to wound from the Cloak on the Knight,

Precisely, it's -1 to hit rolls on 'missile' weapons with cloaked in shadow, while it's -1 to wound rolls on 'melee' weapons with cloak of the waxing moon.

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37 minutes ago, Sleepy saturday said:

Precisely, it's -1 to hit rolls on 'missile' weapons with cloaked in shadow, while it's -1 to wound rolls on 'melee' weapons with cloak of the waxing moon.

Ah that is a significant caveat I didn't see. I guess the cloak isn't as good as I wanted it to be. Familiar is probably best now, then. 

Still. Think the list is a good idea? 

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12 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

It makes me wonder, but the new LoN book doesn't have Spirit Hosts listed as a Battleline choice for Night Haunt. It makes me a bit curious on how a list like that would work.

Take  zombies or dogs or skeletons as your battleline tax and go from there. Something like this basically 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Necromancer (110)

- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 

- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour

Necromancer (110) 

- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify

Knight of Shrouds (120)

- General

6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

5 x Hexwraiths (160)

3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Total: 980 / 1000

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 70

 

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22 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

Take  zombies or dogs or skeletons as your battleline tax and go from there. Something like this basically 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Necromancer (110)

- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 

- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour

Necromancer (110) 

- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify

Knight of Shrouds (120)

- General

6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

5 x Hexwraiths (160)

3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Total: 980 / 1000

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 70

 

Oh no, I was talking more about how exactly that works with the Night Haunt allegiance. If it says they are no longer batteline in the LoN Book, are they still batteline for Night Haunt?

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2 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Oh no, I was talking more about how exactly that works with the Night Haunt allegiance. If it says they are no longer batteline in the LoN Book, are they still batteline for Night Haunt?

I know on the warscroll-builder they're counted as 'nighthaunt battleline' but I'm not wholly sure. That's a good question but I can only assume the answer is yes

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