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Antipodean7

GHB2017 - Rules questions collation thread

59 posts in this topic

Antipodean7    121

Hey all,

I thought it would be a good initiative to collate the community's rules questions regarding the General's Handbook 2017, the accompanying FAQs, and Forgeworld and Compendium warscrolls.  I do this partly from self-interest in that I am running a tournament in mid-September and want to flush out any issues before the tournament.

I don't want this thread to be a home for complaints, negativity, or subjective commentary on the value or wisdom of particular rulings.  Rather, a collection of neutral questions seeking clarity regarding particular rules wordings, potential new FAQs, and even  typos.  In short, be constructive.  Hopefully this will be a valuable resource for the community.

So, what questions do you have?

I'll update this first post with the questions as they are submitted (I also started a Facebook post in "Age of Sigmar Fans", but will be collating all the questions here). 

UPDATE: I've also released a show on the new FAQs over at AoS Shorts - you can find the episode, transcript and resources here: https://aosshorts.com/age-of-sigmar-faqs/

Cheers,

Dan

QUESTIONS

 

Picking your army / allegiances

  • Can you use one allegiance for selecting your battleline units, but then use a different allegiance for the traits and artefacts?  This was a practice in GHB1 but seems less clear on the wording in GHB17
  • Is there a reason why some factions have an allegiance that is different from their faction name?  For example, Disciples of Tzeentch (Tzeentch allegiance) and Blades of Khorne (Khorne allegiance).

Allegiance abilities and mixed-faction battalions

  • If I have a Sylvaneth allegiance army, with a Gnarlroot wargrove, can the Order Wizard in the Gnarlroot wargrove by the General? 
  • Do units in a mixed-faction battalion, which have been selected from a different faction that the battalion itself, count for the minimum battleline requirements in matched play? or are they like allies and don't count? 
  • If so, which allegiance abilities, command traits, artefacts, spells can the wizard access?  Page 117 of GHB2017 says that (by way of example) the Stormcasts in Guardians of Alarielle do not benefit from any SYLVANETH allegiance abilities because those units themselves don't have the SYLVANETH keyword.  While they may not be able to "benefit from" the ability, can they still take a command trait, artefact or spell?  The Sylvaneth battletome says that any HERO in a Sylvaneth army can have a Sylvaneth command trait/artefact etc (noting however that the wording for the Sylvaneth spell lore is more ambiguous as it refers to both a WIZARD in a Sylvaneth army and a SYLVANETH WIZARD).

Allegiance abilities and named characters

  • Are named battalion characters, such as Zogbak Realmrippa and Zectoka, which are based on the standard warscroll for that unit, allowed to take command traits and artefacts?

Allies and battalions

  • If a units in a battalion have a choice of allegiance (for example, Everchosen or Tzeentch with the Fatesworn Warband), and you select Tzeentch as your army allegiance, do you pay for the battalion out of your main faction points, or your ally points?

Mounts

  • On page 117 it states that "command abilities or magical artefacts can only be used to affect attacks made by the hero, and have no effect on attacks made by the their [sic] mount unless specifically stated otherwise".  Was this meant to say command traits, given that it is in the Allegiance Abilities section, or is it addressed to matters such as Battle Brew on a Stonehorn?  NB: the German version of GHB2017 refers to command traits, rather than command abilities.
  • If a command ability or artefact affects "a model", and that model is a mounted hero, does the ability/artefact affect the mount? or must the ability/artefact explicitly say that it affects "the mount"?
  • Is Mighty Lord of Khorne's/Khorgos Khul's dog treated as a mount? Or another weapon?
  • Is the Grot Warboss's Gobba treated as a mount? Or another weapon?
  • Is the coven throne regarded as a mount? If so which attacks are considered to be affected by command traits? The vampire and hand maidens or just the vampire?

Under-strength units

  • Does "minimum size" refer to the minimum size on the Warscroll, or to the minimum size in the Pitched Battle profile? Previously Under-strength referred to the Profile and minimum size referred to the Warscroll, but the Pitched Battle Profiles page also refers to "minimum sizes units" in regards to the Pitched Battle Profile. (In which case an under-sized unit will always be less than minimum size.)

Stormcast

  • Do Stormcast Prayers work on allied units (despite being Allegiance abilities)? They do not specify a keyword.

Sylvaneth

  • Are the rolls for Drycha's Squirmlings "hit rolls", given they are a shooting attack, such that they could benefit from an ability allowing you to re-roll misses?

Seraphon

  • Skink starseer in Ghb2 has risen to 200pts but doesn't have an asterisk next to it. In Azyr it's 160
  • How does engine of the gods work with matched play? I.e. On scenarios where you score at the end of your turn. If you make an 18+ on the engine of gods roll chart,  do you score in that extra free turn as well?
  • Also, do your buffs that last until the next hero phase mean the next battle rounds hero phase or imply that you will indeed have to rebuff in the proceeding (free) turn phase? I.e prayers or mystic shields etc.
  • Q:// Dracothian's Tail page 133, It states that you can summon units included in the battalion using a summoning spell. Is this summoning spell restricted to the number of models mentioned in the augmented spell description. Example: can I summon a 40 unit saurus unit or would I be restricted to the maximum unit size described in the spell 20 saurus models.
  • Q://  Dracothian's Tail page 133, can cast any number of summoning spells that summon SAURUS units to the battlefield, as long as each unit he summons comes from this battalion. Does this mean that you pay the points for the units and than you put them aside and than you can summon them or does this mean that you have to pay points for the units, deploy them in the table top, save some reserve points and than from those reserve points you can cast any number of summoning spells as long as you have some of the deployed units on the tabletop

Daughters of Khaine

  • Does Cauldron of Blood's Bloodshield ward save stack, ie can a unit get it more than once if in range of multiple Cauldron of Bloods?

Pestilens

  • If you give a Plague Furnace the Liber Bubonicus artefact, can the furnace use both the Pestilens prayers and its own?
  • Clan Pestilens echoes of great plagues trait talks about prayers cast by pestilent priest. If verminlord corruptor has gained access to prayers through command trait or artifact, is he for all intents and purposes counted as being "pestilent priest"? Command trait and the artifact do not state whether verminlord receives priest keyword or not.

Skryre

  • Q:// can warpstone shards be used to double mortal wound damage output such as warpfire throwers, warfare protectors, spell castings etc...?

Ironjawz

  • Is the Weirdnob Shaman always the closest unit to himself for Power of the Waaaagh?
  • Does the Weird-nob count as the "closest Orruk Unit" for the purposes of suffering Mortal Wounds on a casting roll of a double?
  • When do the suffered Mortal Wounds on a double come into play?  Is it any time that the Weird-nob casts, or just when there are 20+ Orruk models nearby?  Or does it kick in at 10+ nearby Orruk models?
  •  How do the Ardboyz Shields work exactly?  Specifically, at what point in the wounding/damage process are the saves taken? Do the Shields save against Wounds before Damage is calculated?  Like for d3 or multi-damage weapons? And do the Shields work against Mortal Wounds?

Disciples of Tzeentch

  • Does Arcane Suggestion (Drop your weapons and It's Hopeless) last until the start of your next hero phase like other debuffs?
  • Q: For the Glean Magic spell of the Curseling, you roll 2D6 and have to roll "equal to or greater than" the casting value of the spell being learned, which corresponds to how a casting roll is described. Does this 2D6 roll count as a casting roll?

Slaves to Darkness

  • Daemon Prince is included in the Slaves to Darkness Pitched Battle profile, but does not have the Slaves to Darkness keyword.  Does this lack of keyword in any way limit or impact the selection of Daemon Princes, or their roles regarding Command Traits or Artefacts,  within a Slaves to Darkness army?

Zombies

  • How does the rule 'merge' work? If there are conditions applied to one unit which merged with the other do they now both apply to the merged unit? If these are contradictory how do I determine which apply? Is a new unit created when the units merge? If so, is the new units merged size considered the starting size for that unit in matched play?

 

Does setting up an Auric Runesmiter and their selected unit count as one drop or two? Thoughts? Opinions?

Forgeworld

  • Skin wolves generate additional attacks on an 'attack roll' of 5+.  Is this meant to say hit roll?
  • Q: Exalted Greater Daemons are not named characters, so do they have access to traits and Artefacts?

Open Play

  • What is the "Order of Precedence" for Storm of War Twist card vs Lord of Change "Mastery of Magic"
Edited by Antipodean7
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Antipodean7    121

Getting lots of questions over on Facebook - I'll add them to this list through the day, and try to tighten some of the wording of the questions.

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Nico    1,980
Quote
  • Can you spend ally points on formations as long as the requirements are met? For example the Everchosen Fatesworn Warband paid for in ally points in a Tzeentch army - a Tzeentch army loses their allegiance for Tzeentch if they pay for the Fatesworn warband normally as despite being a formation for Tzeentch models it has the Everchosen keyword. Can they use ally points to pay for the formation so that the army can still benefit from the Tzeentch allegiance.

The Fatesworn is a bad example because of this in every new Battletome:

IMG_1313.PNG.8c4a0ddd0156cf6eb0205a21d78b3163.PNG

The Fatesworn Battalion can take Tzeentch allegiance from its contents.

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Nico    1,980

A question about a Tzeentch Allegiance ability:

Does Arcane Suggestion (Drop your weapons and It's Hopeless) last until the start of your next hero phase like other debuffs?

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Nico    1,980

Do Stormcast Prayers work on allied units (despite being Allegiance abilities)? They do not specify a keyword.

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Nico    1,980

Pretty sure that the Hound is the rider and the Mighty Lord is the mount - Hound inevitably does more damage. :)

Edited by Nico
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TheOtherJosh    409

What is the "Order of Precedence" for Storm of War Twist card vs Lord of Change "Mastery of Magic"

 

 

The 'Storm of War' Twist card in the new Open War deck states:

Add 1 to all casting and unbinding rolls. However, if a casting or unbinding roll results in a double, then the caster suffers a mortal wound after the spell is attempted and its effects (if any) have been resolved. If the roll was a double 1, then the caster suffers D3 mortal wounds instead.

 

How does this interact with the Lord of Change's Mastery of Magic?

 

When you make a casting or unbinding roll for a Lord of Change, change the result of the lowest dice so that it matches the highest.

 

Does the Lord of Change's (mandatory) double result cause a mortal wound every time it casts a spell?

 

My belief is that the roll results is changed after the "roll double" is determined... but clarity would be nice. :)

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TheOtherJosh    409

There are Factions that have different Allegiances names than their faction name.
 
For example:
Disciples of Tzeentch. (Allegiance: Tzeentch)
Blades of Khorne (Allegiance: Khorne)
 
However, in the GHB 2017, Factions and Allegiance are sometimes used interchangeably.
 
For example:
“The Pitched Battle profile for each faction lists the allegiances of the allied units you can take. Allied units can have a different allegiance to the rest of the army." (Allies, GHB 2017, p.76)
 
Are "Allegiances" equal to "Factions" or is that just "in general because most factions are named their allegiance"?

-----
"Under Strength Units"
“An under-strength unit that is less than the minimum unit size cannot be used to fulfil the requirements for the battleline units in an army - battleline units must always be at least a minimum-sized unit." P.86

Does "minimum size" refer to the minimum size on the Warscroll, or to the minimum size in the Pitched Battle profile? Previously Under-strength referred to the Profile and minimum size referred to the Warscroll, but the Pitched Battle Profiles page also refers to "minimum sizes units" in regards to the Pitched Battle Profile. (In which case an under-sized unit will always be less than minimum size.)

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Nico    1,980

Minimum size in that context is referring to GHB min size as it talks about points and multiplying the min size.

As per an earlier FAQ - a unit of 7 Liberators or (now) 9 Chaos Warriors is above min size but understrength.

Edited by Nico

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Groje    256

I already addressed following issue to AoS Facebook account as I assume that the mounts section on page 117 has an error in the English version (even though usually the translations bring the errors in) 

 

"In the English version of GHB2017 it is stated that command abilities do not affect the mount if not otherwise stated. In the German version instead command traits are named to not affect the mount. The German version somehow seems to make more sense as the statements that certain traits like legendary fighter do not have the "mount is not affected" statement anymore which was there in 2016 version. Can you please clarify if command trait or command ability was ment within the mounts-section on page 117 of GHB2017?"

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firebat    27
11 hours ago, Nico said:

The Fatesworn is a bad example because of this in every new Battletome:

IMG_1313.PNG.8c4a0ddd0156cf6eb0205a21d78b3163.PNG

The Fatesworn Battalion can take Tzeentch allegiance from its contents.

I brought this up in the Slaanesh thread but it's probably better continued here. While the last line is in the battletomes it's absent from both last years GHB and this years. Last years it could be assumed it's a correction in the battletomes but the 2017 GHB overwrites previous rules and despite having a section on warscroll battalions and allegiance this last line is missing. It could be just an omission but it could also be as well as an increase in cost of battalions they've tightened how they can be taken.

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Nico    1,980

If I have an ability that allows me to re-roll all failed saves, when are saves "failed"? before or after modifiers? For instance you could have a 4+ armour save, roll a 4, so you can't re-roll the dice, but because the attack is at -1 rend, you then take the wound. Is this correct? This has been dealt with in the FAQ - they really do mean reroll saves before modifiers, so you cannot reroll the 4 against -1 rend.

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Rayf    0

A question regarding the Dracothian's Tail Battalion of Seraphon:

It says that you can summon any number of Saurus *Units* from the Bataillon. Since the Slann can "only" cast 3 Spells, how many of those would it take? I'm not sure if "any number" means it does not take a summon slot or that it means that you could summon 4/5 units in a single turn. 

For instance: If I want to summon 4 Saurus Units, can I summon those and still use other spells? How many? (0-3)

If not, does that mean that I can only do sth. Like summon 2 Saurus and Mystic Shield? 

Edited by Rayf

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TheOtherJosh    409
If I have an ability that allows me to re-roll all failed saves, when are saves "failed"? before or after modifiers? For instance you could have a 4+ armour save, roll a 4, so you can't re-roll the dice, but because the attack is at -1 rend, you then take the wound. Is this correct?This has been dealt with in the FAQ - they really do mean reroll saves before modifiers, so you cannot reroll the 4 against -1 rend.

 

This was dealt with in the new FAQ on page 7.

 

"Q: Some abilities allow me to re-roll a successful (or unsuccessful) roll. When this is the case, is the success or failure based on the roll before or after any modifiers are applied?

A: Re-rolls happen before any modifiers are applied, so the success or failure will always be based on the unmodified roll.

 

As an aside, when an ability says you can re-roll a failed roll, you may want to consider the effect that any modi ers will have before deciding to re-roll the dice. For example, if a roll succeeds on a 4 or more and you have a +1 modifier, you don’t want to re-roll ‘failed’ rolls of 3, because they will become successful after the modi er is applied!"

 

As such rend is more powerful than previously assumed, against units that have re-rolls. (That don't have +save modifiers.)

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TheOtherJosh    409
A question regarding the Dracothian's Tail Battalion of Seraphon: It says that you can summon any number of Saurus *Units* from the Bataillon. Since the Slann can "only" cast 3 Spells, how many of those would it take? I'm not sure if "any number" means it does not take a summon slot or that it means that you could summon 4/5 units in a single turn.  For instance: If I want to summon 4 Saurus Units, can I summon those and still use other spells? How many? (0-3)

If not, does that mean that I can only do sth. Like summon 2 Saurus and Mystic Shield? 

 

 

  

As an aside: how does it interact with rule of one and spell casting for this summoning rule in Matched play?

 

In Matched Play each spell can only be cast once. So if the units have different Warscroll names then you could attempt to summon 3 different named units this turn.

 

If they all had the same name, then rule of one means only one unit?

 

 

 

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Antipodean7    121
1 hour ago, Nico said:

If I have an ability that allows me to re-roll all failed saves, when are saves "failed"? before or after modifiers? For instance you could have a 4+ armour save, roll a 4, so you can't re-roll the dice, but because the attack is at -1 rend, you then take the wound. Is this correct? This has been dealt with in the FAQ - they really do mean reroll saves before modifiers, so you cannot reroll the 4 against -1 rend.

Thought it had - but for some reason was blind and couldn't find it. So I added it to the list as a reminder. I'll take it out. 

Need to start drafting the show notes for re-rolls, modifiers and multipliers. 

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Nico    1,980

Yes it's page 7 of the Rules FAQ. They have thankfully explained the Paradoxical Shield as well, which is the most confusing instance of Rerolls before modifiers. It's in 40K too, so it's not going away any time soon.

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Nico    1,980

Sounds like the Slaan can summon the units in addition to his spells. The Battalion has its own wording which replicates the rule of one. Not ideal as summoning increments for Saurus aren't big enough.

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Nico    1,980

Does the Coven Throne have a mount or do all of its attacks benefit from traits and Artefacts?

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Don't have the GHB2017 at hand right now, but I remember seeing misspelling in the English version of the Seraphon Allegiance abilities:

Using: "Slann" and further up "Slaan"

Also In the point lists it seems Nurgle Daemons don't have any allies whatsoever. Don't remember if other factions can ally Nurgle Daemons though need to check that. This might be an intentional ommision waiting for the coming Battletome for Nurgle

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Drofnum    19
4 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

  

As an aside: how does it interact with rule of one and spell casting for this summoning rule in Matched play?

 

In Matched Play each spell can only be cast once. So if the units have different Warscroll names then you could attempt to summon 3 different named units this turn.

 

If they all had the same name, then rule of one means only one unit?

 

 

 

The battalion states you can only summon each warscroll once per round.  You cant cast Summon Suarus Warriors 3 times, but can cast Summon warriors, knight and guard for example.

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Drofnum    19
4 hours ago, Rayf said:

A question regarding the Dracothian's Tail Battalion of Seraphon:

It says that you can summon any number of Saurus *Units* from the Bataillon. Since the Slann can "only" cast 3 Spells, how many of those would it take? I'm not sure if "any number" means it does not take a summon slot or that it means that you could summon 4/5 units in a single turn. 

For instance: If I want to summon 4 Saurus Units, can I summon those and still use other spells? How many? (0-3)

If not, does that mean that I can only do sth. Like summon 2 Saurus and Mystic Shield? 

In addition to this, can you summon units larger than stated on the warscrolls summoning spell?  You can summon 10 warriors with a cast of 6+ or 20 with a cast of 11+, but what if i have a unit of 40 in my battalion?  Can I summon the entire unit and if not then how many can I summon, 10 or 20?

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Lanoss    5

Question:
If a general has either a command trait or command ability that affects him and a nearby unit, both are activated (passive or chosen), BUT THEN the general dies at the beginning of the opponents turn, DO the abilities still affect the other unit??

I'm referring to an Aquillor and a unit of Palladors and the Aquillor had some command trait. Then he died and we quibbled over whether the Palladors were still affected


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