Kaleun Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 @Black_Fortress_Immortal I definitly like your approach and concept. However I would maybe put the Sorceress on a dragon to give her more survivability. The points can be gained with excluding the Vortex, 1x10 Bleakswords and the sorc on foot of course. You would be on 1990 points then. Have you tried the 42" range Sorceress? Personally she feels a bit squishy on her vortex and you can summon the Vortex only once per game so she better stands on a Misson objective and she kinda costs 180 points with the Vortex now (not sure if she can make her points back). I also see the Bleakswords superior to Dreadspears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Yeah, I only used Dreadspears because they were 80pts. My Bleakswords outperformed them in all my games. Sure, the Dreads have the 2" range, but that didn't come up as much as you would think. The Sorceress on Black Dragon may not be as good as the other behemoths in the game, but she can survive pretty well if you use her right. Plus it means that Stormcast can't star-fate your general out the game on turn one. What are people's thoughts on Drakespawn allies? One squad of ten or two of five each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 using Black_Fortress_Immortal's army list. How would you set up the army in one drop being save from enemy turn 1 charges, Sorceress-Sniping or Stormcast teleport shenanigans? Suggestion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Kaleun said: @Black_Fortress_Immortal I definitly like your approach and concept. However I would maybe put the Sorceress on a dragon to give her more survivability. The points can be gained with excluding the Vortex, 1x10 Bleakswords and the sorc on foot of course. You would be on 1990 points then. Have you tried the 42" range Sorceress? Personally she feels a bit squishy on her vortex and you can summon the Vortex only once per game so she better stands on a Misson objective and she kinda costs 180 points with the Vortex now (not sure if she can make her points back). I also see the Bleakswords superior to Dreadspears. Aye, a dragon increases survivability, but I think having 2 is way too much. The vortex, imo, is way too important to ignore. That first turn -1 to hit can be pretty helpful, especially if you get your Dragon with -1 to hit already for any enemy attacking her. Even if the enemy gets a double turn, their main striker unit will have -1 to hit, so if they try and gang your Dragon, that's -2... most units will have to rely on 5s and 6s to get anything on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 You can't put the Dragon Sorceress on a Vortex. Only non-behemoth wizards can summon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 15 hours ago, GammaMage said: You can't put the Dragon Sorceress on a Vortex. Only non-behemoth wizards can summon it. Exactly. Which is why I wouldn't substitute the Sorceress for SoBD. I don't understand how you misinterpreted this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Ohh, you mean Word of Pain giving -1 to hit? I thought you meant the vortex giving her a cover bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 @GammaMage to make this clear. The Spell of the soreress gives the enemy an -1 to hit debuff. On the Vortex and with the artefact the spell gets a great range. However you cant put a Black dragon on the Vortex because it is a monster and therefore permitted from the use of the Vortex. (note that the Vortex is a piece of scenery with +1 save and it also triggers the artefact for +6" spellrange) The list I found for me is pretty similar to the one of Black_Fortress_Immortal. I post it here: Allegiance: Darkling CovensLeadersSorceress On Black Dragon (300)- General- Darkling Sword- Trait: Impossibly Swift - Artefact: Decanter of Egos Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)- Witch Rod- Artefact: Incorporeal Retainer Battleline30 x Black Guard (430)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Executioners (180)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)BattalionsThrall Warhost (180)Total: 1990/2000 It is also a one drop army, but I traded the Vortex (100), the Sorceress (80) and one unit of Bleakswords (100) for the dragon with a 6++ ward save. Tactics are best described by Black_Fortress. The main reason for the second dragon for me was increased mobility of this darkling coven army, but at the cost of the debuff of course. Kaleun PS: The reason for the split in multiple units is that I get two more champions with a +1 to hit on the Darkshards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Hmm. I missed that Black_Fortress was already playing a Sorceress on Black Dragon. While I would encourage playing one, I don't think two is a great idea. And you should always play at least one foot sorceress, preferably two so you can cast arcane bolt, mystic shield and word of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 assumed you have a Sorc on Dragon and a foot Sorceress you will still be able to cast 2 out of 4 possible powers. These are Arc. Bolt, Myst. Shield, Bladewind and word o. Pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 I find that I want to be casting at least three spells a turn though. Mystic Shield, Word of Pain and either Arcane Bolt or Bladewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 honestly why would you? I can see that Mystic Shield might be of some use on important units, but at the start of the game there are 24" between you and the enemy so no offensive magic if you have the first turn. Even later the damage spells push out two mortal wounds on average, not really a game changer on 2000 Points. In my experience magicians on foot with damage spells arent really worth it. Its just to easy for your enemy to avoid or simply tank the damage. Support/Debuff-mages are a different thing and also if you can increase the 18" spell range. but thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Maybe I just like spells too much! As for range, I'm thinking of giving one foot sorceress the Anklet, and the other will summon a Vortex. So in theory I can cast Mystic Shield, Arcane Bolt and Word of Pain all on my first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 9 hours ago, GammaMage said: Hmm. I missed that Black_Fortress was already playing a Sorceress on Black Dragon. While I would encourage playing one, I don't think two is a great idea. And you should always play at least one foot sorceress, preferably two so you can cast arcane bolt, mystic shield and word of pain. I think Word of Pain is an amazing spell. The ability to grant -1 to hit and deal a mortal wound is a very good utility, on top of the wizard being able to sacrifice a measly model for a +1 bonus? Yes please. Also, possibly allying with Grey Battlemage to cast Mystifying Miasma for yet another -1 hit roll to a unit? Hmm... EDIT: Not to mention that it boosts the effectiveness of Bladewind... oh man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Kaleun said: honestly why would you? I can see that Mystic Shield might be of some use on important units, but at the start of the game there are 24" between you and the enemy so no offensive magic if you have the first turn. Even later the damage spells push out two mortal wounds on average, not really a game changer on 2000 Points. In my experience magicians on foot with damage spells arent really worth it. Its just to easy for your enemy to avoid or simply tank the damage. Support/Debuff-mages are a different thing and also if you can increase the 18" spell range. but thats just me. The 24" split doesn't matter when you can cast Balewind Vortex with a +3 casting bonus. This lets you debuff a dangerous unit from the get-go, or nail someone with an arcane bolt, while your Darkshards can hit from a range of 6"+3"+D6"+16" effectively a 25-31" range, you can strike anything on the front line reliably with your Darkshards. Let's assume law of averages: 40 Darkshards = 80 shots to 40 hits to 20 wounds at an effective 25"-31" range with a 1 drop army. That to me, is VERY powerful. Throw on top of that D3 mortal wounds at 36" range, you can possibly nuke the support heroes that the enemy has, or trigger a nasty battleshock. I would love to see this in action. Not to mention the utility of the Battalion itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 6 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: I think Word of Pain is an amazing spell. The ability to grant -1 to hit and deal a mortal wound is a very good utility, on top of the wizard being able to sacrifice a measly model for a +1 bonus? Yes please. Also, possibly allying with Grey Battlemage to cast Mystifying Miasma for yet another -1 hit roll to a unit? Hmm... EDIT: Not to mention that it boosts the effectiveness of Bladewind... oh man... does the -1 to hit work together with bladewind? In the warscroll it says "...to hit characteristic..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, Kaleun said: does the -1 to hit work together with bladewind? In the warscroll it says "...to hit characteristic..." Oooh good catch, it's not the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 It's a pity the two sorcress spells don't combo like that. It would be pretty cool. But I guess they didn't want people to be able to stack Order units that give hit debuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: Also, possibly allying with Grey Battlemage to cast Mystifying Miasma for yet another -1 hit roll to a unit? Hmm... This won't work if the army should have Darkling Covens Allegiance because the Faction doen't have Collegiate Arcane as Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 We don't have any ally options that include wizards, sadly. Hopefully when the rumoured Shadowkin come out, they will have some cool options and be able to ally with Darkling Covens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, GammaMage said: We don't have any ally options that include wizards, sadly. Hopefully when the rumoured Shadowkin come out, they will have some cool options and be able to ally with Darkling Covens. The discouraging thing is that since Allies are printed in the book, it seems "sloppy" to me for them to FAQ it for every faction released within the next year. Last GHB, we saw faction previews before the release, which makes me wonder about this year, and if there's just going to be updated allegiances and not so much new model ranges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: The discouraging thing is that since Allies are printed in the book, it seems "sloppy" to me for them to FAQ it for every faction released within the next year. Last GHB, we saw faction previews before the release, which makes me wonder about this year, and if there's just going to be updated allegiances and not so much new model ranges? The Question is, how many new fraction will come out before the next Grand Alliance Book (2018). There are some quite big armies that didn't got Allegiance Abilities with the last book (Swifthawk Agents, Deathrattle, Grots, Gutbusters), there could be a Nurgle release that will have some change on allies and we have the strange case with Deathwalkers, that can have Allies, but don't even have a hero for there own group. And with the Rumours Engine Posts I heard several times the term Chtuhlu Aelves, which could simply be Scourge Privateers (which also have no own Allegiance yet). And when the Rumors are right this year we will only get Shadespire for AoS, so I don't really think that there will be completly new faction coming out before GH18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 17 hours ago, EMMachine said: And when the Rumors are right this year we will only get Shadespire for AoS, so I don't really think that there will be completly new faction coming out before GH18. Well completely new faction maybe not. But in the shadespire teasers they announced two big expansions in November. They also showed an image with a gutter runner/skaven assassin and all the other releases got new models. So there's is valid hope for some models there. But I wouldn't expect more than a 'blight war' kind of update for the faction. With the seasons of illness (forgot what the rule was called) nurgle forces have a very thematic alliance ability and I assume it would be easy to use in regular games with nurgle. Also if it comes to a nurgle book i think most likely gw will put all updates there and do the same for new forces. Otherwise no reason to buy those books also allies are an easy FAQ fix. Wouldnt count it out but I agree that I wouldn't bet on a totally new faction before 2018 but a revised faction wouldn't suprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 The two lists written down together: Allegiance: Order Sorceress On Black Dragon (300) - General - Darkling Sword - Trait: Impossibly Swift - Artefact: Decanter of Egos Sorceress (80) - Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 30 x Darkshards (300) 30 x Black Guard (430) 10 x Executioners (180) Thrall Warhost (180) Balewind Vortex (100) Total: 1970/2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Allegiance: Darkling CovensLeadersSorceress On Black Dragon (300)- General- Darkling Sword- Trait: Impossibly Swift - Artefact: Decanter of Egos Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)- Witch Rod- Artefact: Incorporeal Retainer Battleline30 x Black Guard (430)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Executioners (180)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)BattalionsThrall Warhost (180)Total: 1990/2000 ... how would these lists succeed against typical lists of the AoS meta? .) Stormcast Eternals with Dracoths and Stardrake .) Tzeentch Skyfires .) Stormcast Teleport (Skyborne Slayers) .) Ironjawz .) Seraphon .) Wanderers (bows everywhere) .)... how would you rank our Darkling Covens chances against these lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Kaleun said: The two lists written down together: Allegiance: Order Sorceress On Black Dragon (300) - General - Darkling Sword - Trait: Impossibly Swift - Artefact: Decanter of Egos Sorceress (80) - Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 10 x Bleakswords (100) 30 x Darkshards (300) 30 x Black Guard (430) 10 x Executioners (180) Thrall Warhost (180) Balewind Vortex (100) Total: 1970/2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Allegiance: Darkling CovensLeadersSorceress On Black Dragon (300)- General- Darkling Sword- Trait: Impossibly Swift - Artefact: Decanter of Egos Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)- Witch Rod- Artefact: Incorporeal Retainer Battleline30 x Black Guard (430)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Executioners (180)- Darkling Covens Battleline10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Darkshards (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)10 x Bleakswords (100)BattalionsThrall Warhost (180)Total: 1990/2000 ... how would these lists succeed against typical lists of the AoS meta? .) Stormcast Eternals with Dracoths and Stardrake .) Tzeentch Skyfires .) Stormcast Teleport (Skyborne Slayers) .) Ironjawz .) Seraphon .) Wanderers (bows everywhere) .)... how would you rank our Darkling Covens chances against these lists? 1st list is a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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