Lets Chat: Darkling Covens

[Kaleun]

lets talk about the Dreadspears, Bleakswords and the Darkshards.

the table above shows the damage caused in ranged/close combat against certain enemy armor values. Every Unit consisting of ten Models cost 100 Points. The Dreadspears suffered a point increase from 80 to 100 what makes them worse compared to Bleakswords.  However the Spears might have a advantage in big numbers because of their 2" spear range. From my point of few I would use Bleakswords as Chaff units backed up by Darkshards.

I wouldnt say that BG and Executioners are better. They have a different purpose on the battlefield and also an elite status compared to the cheap line infantry. I for myself see the executioners as a flanking unit and do not even try to build them as a center combat regiment. However this is where Black Guard comes in. The 2" range favors large units und they bring very much needed rend to your Darkling Coven army. If you manage to buff your guard's to hit roll they hit on 2+ rerolling ones and wound on a 3+.

I have to add: I would no recommend to ally an War Hydra in. The Hydra is weak damage wise. It is more meant for staying power, holding one flank.

 

[AlmGandix3]

28 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

 

1 hour ago, Nasnad said:

I see a lot of people only using darkshards, what about bleakswords and dreadspears? or are the black guards/executioners just better?

How about generic order mixed dark elves, are they worth it over an darkling covens army?

Darkshards have a range advantage and my list is only 1500 points if i would go higher id definitely add some bleakswords or dreadspears if i need big units.

Also the abillitys of darkling covens are realy nice so it is worth building a darkling covens army. I still want do make an army with dispossessd and dark elves (White Dwarf and Malekith BFF's). Those still are only ideas and maybe in the end it isnt even worth it building only darkling covens we will see  so much to test and experiment with

 

[AlmGandix3]

34 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

 

I have to add: I would no recommend to ally an War Hydra in. The Hydra is weak damage wise. It is more meant for staying power, holding one flank.

 

and what would you suggest instead to support darklings? Probably something im overlooking

[Kaleun]

depends on your Point limit. I would go for a Dreadlord on Black Dragon and a Assassin in 400 Points allied contingent. However the Darkling Covens lack speed. You might want to go with some Drakespawn Knights for a Hammer on your anvil of Dakling Covens. I cant see much use for anyting else. Not sure though if the whole Darkling Coven thing is superior to generic order allegiance.

[GammaMage]

I have used Dreadspears, they're good at holding objectives or chokepoints, but my playstyle doen't suit that kind of strategy. My main battleline up until now has been Bleaksword cannon-fodder. They don't hit anywhere near as hard as the Black Guard, but their shields make them a bit more survivable. I'm actually considering going 20 Bleakswords and 20 Darkshards instead of the 10/30 I listed above. Especially as I've reconsidered the Knight-Azyros. People are likely to think I'm 'that guy' if I field one.

Drakespawn Knight are an excellent ally choice, used them quite a bit, and I highly recommend them. If you put mystic shield on them, they end up with a 3+ save, rerolling 1s and 2s, which makes them really tough to kill without mortal wounds/high rend.

[Nasnad]

What about using a mixed dark elves force, using generic order alligence? .. is there a benefit of being able to include all the different dark elves units, over only ally 400points?

[GammaMage]

As the Bleakswords, Dreadspears and Darkshards are straight battleline, you  can easily put together a 'unified' dark elves force. I'm not sure how good it is. Youcan  play a lot more cavalry units and behemoths than a Darkling Coven allegiance army. You lose the sorceress' command abilities, but you can now use a different general - a Dreadlord on Black Dragon for example, is significantly more fighty than the Sorceress on Black Dragon. And can actually take advantage of the generic order artefacts, which are good for fighty heroes. The problem is that the command abilities for all the former dark elf heroes are now parasitic - the Dreadlord only affects Order Serpentis, the Fleetmaster only affects Privateers, the Cauldron of Blood only affects Daughters of Khaine - and you lose Lethal Coordination so your battlelines are only decent in large units.

I'm not sure whether the rerolling battleshock ability you get for Order allegiance, or the one mortal wound to avoid battleshock altogether is better.

[Kramer]

15 hours ago, Nasnad said:

I see a lot of people only using darkshards, what about bleakswords and dreadspears? or are the black guards/executioners just better?

How about generic order mixed dark elves, are they worth it over an darkling covens army?

I love my dreadspears. Now I haven't played a game with their points increase yet but..... 30 (now most likely 40) dreadspears in cover/mystic shield + inspiring presence has been my core for all games last year. They are very hard to shift, cheap (now less so) and blocked off my opponents while my heavy hitters went for the flanks. 

Now the spears are the same costs as the bleakswords... I might try them. But I don't expect I will change all my models for it. Just stick your general nearby, if needed deal a mortal wound to prevent them fleeing. And you got a solid anvil. 

comparing them to black guards/executioners isn't really a sensible comparison as they fulfill a very different role on the battlefield. My experience is that to win is to use the units to their respective strengths, make sure you use your speed to pick your fights. So for that reason comparing point for point damage percentages and stuff doesn't tell the whole story at all. 

All in all a very fun army to play that requires a lot of good choices to win! 

[Kaleun]

@Kramer

do you have an example for an army list for us how you would build a competitive Darkling Coven force? Which Units do you use as your "heavy hitters"?

Can the artefacts of Darkling Covens be used on allied units?

[GammaMage]

Can't use them on allies.

[Nubgan]

55 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

@Kramer

do you have an example for an army list for us how you would build a competitive Darkling Coven force? Which Units do you use as your "heavy hitters"?

Can the artefacts of Darkling Covens be used on allied units?

Alllies remain isolated from any artefacts or abilities unless they target Order (Which is really damned limited in number). 

Seperately, when your picking allies you want to fill gaps that your army has and Darklings Covens lack either something big and hard hitting and spead. Its hard to achieve both for obvious reasons, but allying into Order Draconis is semi decent because Drakespawn Knights for example and horrifically resiliant or the Dreadlord on Dragon is decent because he hits better than the wet noodle (Sorceress) on Dragon.

No you can't fit both in, so either 10 Knights for some fast moving tar or a Dreadlord on a Dragon to go with a Sorceress on a Dragon are probably sensible ways to go if you want to keep a theme.

[Kaleun]

True. Darkling Covens are a footslogging army. Good thing we received that sweet artefact with +3" Movement (once in a game). With the general Movement of 6" the Darkling Coven Host becomes Cav.-like for one turn. Running will bring us to 12,5" on average and the combination with the Generals Ability to make one unit run+charge brings one unit to a threatrange of 19,5" (average). Not bad at all.

However which Trait for a Sorceress on Black Dragon would you favor? +1 save or -1 to hit? The healing trait is also not bad...

[Nubgan]

1 hour ago, Kaleun said:

True. Darkling Covens are a footslogging army. Good thing we received that sweet artefact with +3" Movement (once in a game). With the general Movement of 6" the Darkling Coven Host becomes Cav.-like for one turn. Running will bring us to 12,5" on average and the combination with the Generals Ability to make one unit run+charge brings one unit to a threatrange of 19,5" (average). Not bad at all.

However which Trait for a Sorceress on Black Dragon would you favor? +1 save or -1 to hit? The healing trait is also not bad...

Her save is a bit pants to be fair, and would that +1 to hit even affect the Dragon (which is the only worthwhile attacks on the profile) because the hit doesn't seem worth it for just the staff and sword attacks.

[GammaMage]

I think he means the Impossibly Swift trait. Enemy models subtract 1 from hit rolls made against the general. I prefer it over the +1 save. I asked a couple of long-times players if my preference was right, and they said that -1 to hit is always better, because it no only makes you have to take less saves, but also switches off abilities that trigger off of rolling a 6+ to hit.

[zedatkinszed]

This is my Darklings list. Unfortunately, it'll be using the old plastic Darkshards/Dreadspear models. But it'll also let me dust off much nicer old metal Blackguard, Executioner and Morathi/Sorceress on foot models.

 

Leaders

• Sorceress On Black Dragon - Witch Rod - Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring - General (Inspiring )
• Sorceress - Artefact: Heart of Woe
• Sorceress - Artefact: Shadesliver

Units

• 10 x Black Guard (160)
• 20 x Executioners (360)
• 10 x Darkshards (100)
• 10 x Darkshards (100)
• 30 x Dreadspears (240)

Battalions

• Thrall Warhost (180)

Allies

• 20 x Witch Aelves (200)
• Cauldron Of Blood (200) - Witchbrew

2000pts

 

3 drop force with 2 Behemoths and 4 Leaders.

The allies could be swapped out for 10 more Blackguard and another 30 Dreadspears. Reduces the drops to 1 and increases the wound count by 5. Or with 10 Doomfire Warlocks and 1 more Sorceress (2 drops).

[GammaMage]

You only get to take two artifacts. One as deafult, plus one because you are playing a battalion. Otherwise it looks cool, though I'm not sure about how maneuverable 20 Executioners will be. Let me know how they do once you've tried them out.

[Kaleun]

I would also change the artefacts to:

Sorc. on Black Dragon...Shadesliver

Sorc on foot..."+3 movement item"

[BURF1]

50 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

I would also change the artefacts to:

Sorc. on Black Dragon...Shadesliver

Sorc on foot..."+3 movement item"

Shadowshroud ring is better. Shadesilver is a trap item for Darkling covens, cause think about what you're going to put it on. Your choices are either a single attack 4+3+ -1 weapon(which will actually manage to wound one out of 5 rounds of combat or so against a 4+) Or a 3 attack 4+4+ R0 weapon(1 out of every 3 rounds of combat actuallt doing a wound). If you fight every round all game you'll gain on average 2 damage on the staff or 3 damage on the sword. But since you won't be in combat for 10 rounds it will be much less.

Remember, you can't give it to the mount (pg117) and you can't give it to allies.

[GammaMage]

Hmm, so, the Shadowshroud Ring, can your Sorecress cast a spell in your hero phase, and then activate the ring after that?

[zedatkinszed]

4 hours ago, GammaMage said:

You only get to take two artifacts. One as default, plus one because you are playing a battalion. Otherwise it looks cool, though I'm not sure about how maneuverable 20 Executioners will be. Let me know how they do once you've tried them out.

Thanks. That's what I get for relying on warscroll builder rather than my GHB17

I'll go with 

• Sorceress On Black Dragon - Witch Rod - Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring - General (Sustained by Misery)
• Sorceress - Artefact: Decanter of Egos

The 20 executioners will be less maneuverable than 2x10  but will report how we go

[GammaMage]

What about Drakespawn Chariots? Anyone tried those out?

[Kaleun]

7 hours ago, GammaMage said:

What about Drakespawn Chariots? Anyone tried those out?

Let´s have a look at the chariots:

 

For 100 Points I see the chariots a bit unterwhelming. The Drakespawn Chariot has +1 save and a little mortal wound attack compared to the scourgerunner, but I guess they are not really worth it. Played the Drakespawn Chariot more like a blocker to enemy charges. The chariots wont put out much damage but they are kinda sturdy.

 

 

 

 

[GammaMage]

On 9/5/2017 at 3:36 PM, Nubgan said:

Seperately, when your picking allies you want to fill gaps that your army has and Darklings Covens lack either something big and hard hitting and speed.

Maybe some Prosecutors or Vanguard-Palladors?

[Burf]

On 9/8/2017 at 9:05 AM, GammaMage said:

Maybe some Prosecutors or Vanguard-Palladors?

Prosecutors maybe, palladors kinda suck without battalion help and the Lord Aquilor.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Hey all, I love Dark Elves and thought I'd come up with a list after the GHB2 dropped, and had a few things in mind that I wanted to achieve:

1. Focus on single-drop list
2. Achieve a well-balanced approach in terms of dealing damage in the hero/combat/shooting phases
3. Maximize the effect of the Battalion ability "Kill them now!"

Allegiance: Order
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
30 x Darkshards (300)
30 x Black Guard (430)
10 x Executioners (180)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1970/2000

The strategy is to deploy near the front of your zone, sacrifice with your sorceress + anklet for +3 to cast, to summon a Balewind Vortex, to grant her cover and another +1 to cast, resulting in +4 to cast.  Her Word of Pain can hit a dangerous unit that you wish to target.

Here's the key point where you can choose to be either defensive or offensive.

Offensive: Grant your command ability "Command Underlings" to allow the Darkshards to run + shoot, if you want to try and take out a key hero/unit, preferably a support hero, or a dangerous unit, other than the one that you hit with Word of Pain - since 60 shots 4+/4+ will avg out to around 15 saves for the enemy to make.   Use your Decanter of Egos in the Movement phase.  Guard the Darkshards with running wall of Bleakswords around them.  Fly the dragon up and attempt a charge if you wish, into the unit that you debuffed with Word of Pain, as they will have -2 to Hit against your Sorceress on Dragon.  Keep your Executioners and Blackguards behind your Bleakswords so they don't get charged.

Defensive: Grant your command ability "Command Underlings" for the shooting, just as above, and use your Decanter of Egos in the Movement phase.  Try and get your Darkshards to hit a target of your choice, and brace for the enemy charge.  Retaliate with your Blackguard and such.

After the first turn, you'll be able to get your Blackguards into clean up messes, and grant them reroll 1s to wound, have them charge and pile in via battalion, and repeat during the combat phase.  

A few things:

• It is hero-light, in which a Bleakswords could be swapped for a sorceress or Ally of your choosing
• "Kill them now!" bypasses charge phase and combat phase disruption or penalties like Khorne and Grots
• Bleakswords I believe are better than Darkspears with the change, unless running maximum sized units for whatever reason, because of the 5+ to trigger an extra attack
• You can give the Shadowshroud Ring to your Sorceress on Balewind to prevent a ranged army from sniping her until your next turn, so that you can really use "Kill them now!"
• The option to give Impossibly Swift to the Sorceress on the Balewind Vortex isn't a bad idea versus ranged, since they will probably be the focus of fire, and +1 cover won't do enough
• If you're facing a Melee focused army, you could always go SECOND, since you can possibly get a double turn and use "Kill them now!" to greater effect when the enemy is in range (this is easier, since they won't be able to reach your Sorceress)
• Against ranged alpha-strike armies, you may want to go first, to debuff their main unit of shooters, and try to shoot something with your Darkshards, and get your Dragon in there quickly as well
• Be careful who you elect to be your Coven-Master, since you do NOT want them to die (the one with 14 wounds sounds like a good idea... haha)

EDIT: Potential to drop 1 unit Bleakswords for +10 Darkshards for even more 1st turn firepower.