Lets Chat: Darkling Covens

[Redbaron]

@Kramer thanks for the tip! I had thought some kind of spikey altar or similar would be a good idea but I hadn't actually thought of an executioners' block. Sounds very good, though! 

[Redbaron]

Hello all, I have a question relating to constructing a DC army, and all the abilities which are available. Can I check I’ve got this right? 

I’ve an army with the DC allegiance, SoBD general plus a sorceress, and the thrall warhost battalion warscroll. As far as I can tell, I get the following:

Impossibly Swift for the general as a single Command Trait. 

One command ability to activate per hero phase, from the potential list Inspiring Presence (the universal option); Kill Them Now (from the battalion warscroll); Command Underlings; or Inspire Hatred (both from the DC allegiance). 

I always have the effects Lethal Coordination and Tyrannical Ruler available, through my DC allegiance. 

Finally, I can take two DC artefacts: Shadesliver for the SoBD, and Decanter of Egos for the Sorceress (and artefacts can’t be given to allied figures, or more than one per character). 

Is that right?

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Kill them Now is NOT a command ability.  You can use that on top of any of the other abilities.

Example:

You could give your Black Guard Inspire Hatred, have them charge (reroll single dice from musician), pile in and attack, all in the Hero Phase.

[Redbaron]

@Black_Fortress_Immortal Ah, nice! Thanks for that. I was worried that I might be doing myself out of a few tricks, and it seems I was. 

Now I just need to sort what’s going on with my allies: I did have some witch elves with a death hag, but of course that’s all up in the air now due to the new battletome. ?

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Just now, Redbaron said:

@Black_Fortress_Immortal Ah, nice! Thanks for that. I was worried that I might be doing myself out of a few tricks, and it seems I was. 

Now I just need to sort what’s going on with my allies: I did have some witch elves with a death hag, but of course that’s all up in the air now due to the new battletome. ?

Welcome aboard!  Haha.  I think there are a few valid options, but based on the leaks, I think that the Khinerai Heartrenders are looking to be the best bet.  Darkling Covens is a horde army, and has limited range with their shooting, and their mobility is limited (albeit swift) due to managing blocks of soldiers around the field.  The ability to deepstrike and throw javelins and THEN move will be invaluable - and at 80pts for 5, we're able to take a good 10-20 of them.  Imagine 20 javelins at -2 rend deepstriking into enemy heroes.

[Kaleun]

I also see very much in the Khinerai Heartrenders. They are super fast and finally we get some "deepstriking" units which is so important in matched play for stealing those mission objectives away. Also the Alphastrike of those Harpies is quite formidable.

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 2/18/2018 at 10:35 AM, Kaleun said:

 What do you guys think of the following list? Executioners with the cheapest chaff we can afford together with the Darkling Coven Allegiance:

Allegiance: Order
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Trait: Impossibly Swift
- Artefact: Incorporeal Retainer
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress (80)
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)
- Allies
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Executioners (360)
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- Allies
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- Allies
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- Allies
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- Allies
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 360 / 400
Wounds: 129

I was running a build with 60 executioners for 40+ games and it was the only thing I found to be decently competitive. You will wreck Stormcast and sylvaneth with it anyway! I had 30 spears for a chaff wall (mainly because thats the models i have - swords might have been better)+ a Dreadlord on dragon (allies). I think the full list is in this thread somewhere. I just ran it hyper aggressive and aimed to table my opponent every game! Needless to say it didn't always work out that way but I won more games with it than any other Darkling Covens build.

I was thinking of starting to paint up some Corsairs when DoK were announced and I decided to concentrate on them. Same loadout as you - blade and handbow. I think there is some mileage in it. 

One caution though - the executioner build is easier to counter these days as there is a lot more access to -1 to hit in combat but even then they usually can't hit all your units at once - its a pretty fun list to play too.

[Freejack02]

4 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I was running a build with 60 executioners for 40+ games and it was the only thing I found to be decently competitive. You will wreck Stormcast and sylvaneth with it anyway! I had 30 spears for a chaff wall (mainly because thats the models i have - swords might have been better)+ a Dreadlord on dragon (allies). I think the full list is in this thread somewhere. I just ran it hyper aggressive and aimed to table my opponent every game! Needless to say it didn't always work out that way but I won more games with it than any other Darkling Covens build.

I was thinking of starting to paint up some Corsairs when DoK were announced and I decided to concentrate on them. Same loadout as you - blade and handbow. I think there is some mileage in it. 

One caution though - the executioner build is easier to counter these days as there is a lot more access to -1 to hit in combat but even then they usually can't hit all your units at once - its a pretty fun list to play too.

I've always wondered if mass Executioner lists were viable - how on earth do you avoid getting buried by shooting? Is there an allegiance or battalion synergy I'm missing? I could see buffing and protecting a single large block, but doesn't this just leave the other 2 blocks wide open? 1w, 4+, and only a 7 bravery would scare me for such a large investment. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

6 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I've always wondered if mass Executioner lists were viable - how on earth do you avoid getting buried by shooting? Is there an allegiance or battalion synergy I'm missing? I could see buffing and protecting a single large block, but doesn't this just leave the other 2 blocks wide open? 1w, 4+, and only a 7 bravery would scare me for such a large investment. 

Yeah, all it takes is -1 hit and they're useless, especially 18pts/model.  Sure they can throw out mortal wounds, but it's putting all the eggs in one basket.  In proxy games, etc. for a few dozen I've had luck with the balanced approach relying on spells, the dragon, and battalion for output against the high armor targets. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

@Freejack02 Yeah you are vulnerable to massed shooting with rend but there is not so much of it out there - I'm sure i would have struggled if there were any good KO players locally!! I had 2 dragons in my list that I used together in a "unit" lots of people would concentrate on killing them and not realise where the real threat was. Also they are really good for taking out hordes, screens and missile troops (because they can fly over other stuff). Battleshock was never really an issue cos of your allegiance abilities.

4+ save is actually ok in my experience. not amazing for sure but it does save some models from stuff like judicators shooting at them. 

You're not useless if someone puts a -1 to hit effect on your unit - just a lot less effective! Again its unlikely that anyone gets -1 to hit on all your units if you are running say, 2 x 20 and 2 x 10. And you have access to -1 to hit spell yourself so you can use it as a direct counter. to limit damage on your de-buffed unit if its a big one. Nurgle and Death coming on the scene in a big way has definitely made the build less of an option.

20 executioners will one-shot a stardrake though. and its the only unit i have ever managed to kill more than 10 vulkites in one round of combat with!!

Its possibly not THE Darkling Coven build but its a viable option and really fun to play if you like glass cannon builds - which was my main reason for playing it. I would rather have a list that is lethal against some armies than mediocre against all of them 

 

 

[Kramer]

15 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

20 executioners will one-shot a stardrake though. and its the only unit i have ever managed to kill more than 10 vulkites in one round of combat with!!

20 executioners will murderize anything in my experience. What’s your poison? 2x10 or 1x20? I’ve been going back and forth. But think I like the flexibility of 2x10 better than the added bonus of buffing all of them with mystical shield. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

@Kramer I never leave home without 40 of them so I generally have one unit of 20 to use aggressively and buff it with Mystic shield and then 2 units of 10 to use as counter punches teamed up with dreadspears/darkshards.

if i only had 20 in the list i would go with 2 x 10 for the same reason as you - the flexibility and board control. 

[Kramer]

41 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

@Kramer I never leave home without 40 of them so I generally have one unit of 20 to use aggressively and buff it with Mystic shield and then 2 units of 10 to use as counter punches teamed up with dreadspears/darkshards.

if i only had 20 in the list i would go with 2 x 10 for the same reason as you - the flexibility and board control. 

I usually 1,5K so 720p is a bit much for me. But it's definitely a good call for bigger games!

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

50 minutes ago, Kramer said:

20 executioners will murderize anything in my experience. What’s your poison? 2x10 or 1x20? I’ve been going back and forth. But think I like the flexibility of 2x10 better than the added bonus of buffing all of them with mystical shield. 

Stardrake will more often than not take the -1 to hit in melee artifact and have staunch defender.  2+ with rerolling 1s is going to make your executioners useless no matter how many you throw at them.  Stomps from Sylvaneth treelords I've had do the same thing - thinking I could get in and mop them up but it was 3 combat rounds in a row where they were stomped every damn time, haha.

[Kramer]

45 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Stardrake will more often than not take the -1 to hit in melee artifact and have staunch defender.  2+ with rerolling 1s is going to make your executioners useless no matter how many you throw at them.  Stomps from Sylvaneth treelords I've had do the same thing - thinking I could get in and mop them up but it was 3 combat rounds in a row where they were stomped every damn time, haha.

Solution is simple, don't attack them with the executioners Or don't play storcast/sylvaneht. But I get and agree with you point. There is enough out there that really hurts them with the -1 to hit. Luckily/sadly in my gaming group it's a very rare occurrence. 

[Kaleun]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Solution is simple, don't attack them with the executioners Or don't play storcast/sylvaneht. But I get and agree with you point. There is enough out there that really hurts them with the -1 to hit. Luckily/sadly in my gaming group it's a very rare occurrence. 

nah, not an option! Stormcast are my main opponents. In all flavors. It is super difficult to win with a pure Dark elve list because we lacked mortal wounds and rend -2. However the Daughters bring a lot of interesting options to the table. Nothing really matters against that super pumped up Stardrake, but at least the dracoth riders will have a bad time.

My main problem with the executioners is that I dont have that many and also dont wanna buy that many. I focused on a big blob of Black Guard. They struggle a lot against the stormcast. Mindrazor would make them so amazing....

I guess the best way to deal with a Stardrake is to ignore it and focus on the other units. That Drake hits hard never the less. My one Sorceress was shot in the first round of combat what brought me also to field 2+. One Sorceress will just get killed to easily and the expensive Balewind Vortex is gone.

[GammaMage]

What are peoples thoughts on the new shadow lore spells in DoK? Am thinking of asking my opponent to let me use it for my DC sorceresses.

[Kaleun]

1 hour ago, GammaMage said:

What are peoples thoughts on the new shadow lore spells in DoK? Am thinking of asking my opponent to let me use it for my DC sorceresses.

isnt official.

I think the lore is great and would say that we should discuss how to get the lore into DC armies legally.
A medusa on Balewind Vortex should be nice.

[GammaMage]

I know it's not official, which is why I'd have to ask my opponent. Was just wondering if the spells were worth using.

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, Kaleun said:

My main problem with the executioners is that I dont have that many and also dont wanna buy that many.

I recently got 20 more old skool executioners and the first 10 were just a joy to paint! Easy but striking, not to much details but enough to keep them interesting. Really enjoyed it just for that. 

[Kaleun]

guys I am thinking of getting an allied contingent of DoK for the Darkling Covens. Weaknesses we have is: pretty slow compared to other armies and Mortal wound output (except the Executioners, but we talked about that issue)

I would first play around with something like:

Bloodwrack Shrine 220
2xHeartrenders 160

now we can have a -1 to hit (via our sorceress) and a -1 to wound (enfeebling foe) while getting some mortal wounds out of the shrine. 2 units of Heartrenders threaten enemy mission objectives and can be used to snipe an important hero.

Other interesting options might be: Doomfire Warlocks, Blood Stalkers (for that ranged shooting) or the Medusa on a Balewind Vortex

All the other stuff seems to be better with the DoK Allegiance. On first sight.

[GammaMage]

4 hours ago, Kaleun said:

I think the lore is great and would say that we should discuss how to get the lore into DC armies legally.
A medusa on Balewind Vortex should be nice.

You can't get it legally into a DC army. The Medusa can't select a shadow spell if you're not playing Daughters of Khaine Allegiance.

[chord]

4 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

You can't get it legally into a DC army. The Medusa can't select a shadow spell if you're not playing Daughters of Khaine Allegiance.

Unless its not matched play.  There are other ways to play and just talking to an opponent can help.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Solution is simple, don't attack them with the executioners Or don't play storcast/sylvaneht. But I get and agree with you point. There is enough out there that really hurts them with the -1 to hit. Luckily/sadly in my gaming group it's a very rare occurrence. 

60 executioners = 1080pts

What else in your list would be taking care of those large units again?

I understand, but that's why taking the Battalion is the best imo, as it bypasses Sylvaneth stomp, beastclaw penalty, and other combat-phase shenanigans from Khorne who will punish you for hitting them.  With Death around now, there is even more -1 to hit penalties for close combat.  The list will play alright against some things, but is easily countered.

[GammaMage]

1 hour ago, chord said:

Unless its not matched play.  There are other ways to play and just talking to an opponent can help.

I already said I was planning on doing that.

 

Anyway, let me ask m y my inital question again: Are the spells good enough that it's worthwhile me asking my opponent to let me take them, or is that more effort than it's worth?