Lets Chat: Darkling Covens

[GammaMage]

So finally got my hands on the GHB 2017 and got to see exactly what Command Traits and Artifacts Darkling Coven get.

The first thing that struck me is the 'Master of the Sorcerous Arts' Command Trait. It adds 1 to casting and unbinding rolls for your general, and if your general is not a wizard, it makes them one.

Except that...the only heroes that Darkling Covens have are sorceresses, on foot or on black dragon, who are all wizards. So why would it need wording that makes a general a wizard?

Apart from that, the command traits are cool but not terribly exciting. Merciless is good, but only if you expect your opponent to fail battleshock tests. Arrogant Prowess wants your sorceress to be hitting stuff in melee, which I'm not sure is a good idea. Sustained by Misery could be really good on the other hand, especially if your sorceress general is riding a dragon. Impossibly Swift seems useful for turning off abilities that trigger on a 6+ hit roll. I'm not sure if Effortless Grace is needed when we have Impossibly Swift.

The artifacts are quite good, but again, some of them seem to expect her to be hitting stuff in close combat. I guess if she's on a black dragon with Sustained By Misery, this could work?

The best stuff we get are the Battle Traits - the ability to team up multiple Bleaksword/Dreadspear/Darkshard units are great, and the new command abilities are cool too.

As for allies, a Knight-Azyros seems like it would be helpful to Darkshards. Possibly some Liberators, Retributors or Sisters of Slaughter will help with our squishiness? I'm not sure if 5 Liberators would actually be any less squishy than 10 Bleakswords (4+ save rerolling 1s VS 5+ save rerolling 1s and 2s).

[Starlight]

I'm intrigued by the possible implication that we may get more leader warscrolls added that make better use of the "fighty" abilities. But it's also possible they just didn't think this through.

[Kaleun]

is it possible to ally an Dreadlord on Dragon in and make him the general? (-> Trait)

[Gecktron]

You can make a troop champion your warlord in open and narrative play. Only in matched play does your warlord have to be a Hero. 

[Starlight]

40 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

is it possible to ally an Dreadlord on Dragon in and make him the general? (-> Trait)

Unfortunately not: "In a Pitched Battle, your general must be a Leader, and may not be an ally."

[Burf]

I haven't looked through the book all that thourpughly yet, can you give allied heros relics?

[GammaMage]

8 hours ago, Gecktron said:

You can make a troop champion your warlord in open and narrative play. Only in matched play does your warlord have to be a Hero. 

Ah, for some reason I thought the Allegiance abilties were part of the Matched Play chapter. This makes more sense, thanks.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

Since the sorceress is the only hero currently, would anyone be willing to allow Dreadlord to have the Darkling Covens Keyword? That way, you have a combat oriented hero that can become the army's general that can use the allegiance abilities, command traits and items

[Kramer]

41 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

Since the sorceress is the only hero currently, would anyone be willing to allow Dreadlord to have the Darkling Covens Keyword? That way, you have a combat oriented hero that can become the army's general that can use the allegiance abilities, command traits and items

I would, but to be fair we, a group of friends, will still allow the compendium heroes to be played as they were including the command abilities. On the other hand we all like to play around within the restrictions offered so I guess it won't happen often. 

[Nubgan]

Quick question as its semi relevant (as a Dark Elf Unit of old). Does anyone have any idea what the Scourge Privateers 'Realm Reavers' Battalion does and what the units involved are?

Looking at getting a small bunch of them together and perhaps making a ship of some sort as a display board in the future.

[helle]

[Nubgan]

Could have been worse. Might make a decent 1000pt list with all those units.

[Kaleun]

@Starlight

thanks for clarifiing

I guess artefacts can also be put on allied units?

The problem with the realm reavers is that the units in the battalion are so bad... The best way making Scourge priv. work might be composing an army based on the chariots. They seem ok.

[Mengel Miniatures]

13 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

@Starlight

thanks for clarifiing

I guess artefacts can also be put on allied units?

The problem with the realm reavers is that the units in the battalion are so bad... The best way making Scourge priv. work might be composing an army based on the chariots. They seem ok.

Artifacts and traits cannot be given to allied units. The allied units do not count as having the main faction's keyword, and so cannot take advantage of their allegiance abilities, traits, or artifacts. Traits and artifacts can also not be used on allied units.

[Nubgan]

1 hour ago, Kaleun said:

@Starlight

thanks for clarifiing

I guess artefacts can also be put on allied units?

The problem with the realm reavers is that the units in the battalion are so bad... The best way making Scourge priv. work might be composing an army based on the chariots. They seem ok.

Yeah they are a bit guff in general, I just crave some sort of elves and I love models like these and Shadow Warriors that sport ranged/melee weapons, and lets be honest, they still look pretty hawt.

[someone2040]

7 hours ago, Mengel Miniatures said:

Artifacts and traits cannot be given to allied units. The allied units do not count as having the main faction's keyword, and so cannot take advantage of their allegiance abilities, traits, or artifacts. Traits and artifacts can also not be used on allied units.

Edit: Nevermind, thought we were talking about a Scourge Privateers army, not a Darkling Covens one.

[GammaMage]

So this is the list I'm looking at playing for now. Not intended to be super-competitive, but hopefully not something that will lose horribly all the time. Is partly based on what models I actually have access to. Not sure if Sustained by Misery is better than the +1 to save or the -1 to hit traits. The Decanter of Egos is mostly to justify why one of my sorceresses (converted from a Death Hag) has a chalice. The Anklet is probably better, but we'll see if Decanter + Command Underlings is a useful trick to get my Darkshards in range to shoot stuff. As for the Shadseliver on my general, I feel like it would be really fun to try build up her sword to deal massive damage (provided my sorceresses-can-never-hit anything curse stays away).

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Sustained by Misery
- Artefact: Shadesliver
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress (80)

Battleline
20 x Black Guard (320)
10 x Executioners (180)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Darkshards (200)

Allies
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (140)
1 x Bloodwrack Medusae (120)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1980/ 2000

[Nubgan]

18 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

So this is the list I'm looking at playing for now. Not intended to be super-competitive, but hopefully not something that will lose horribly all the time. Is partly based on what models I actually have access to. Not sure if Sustained by Misery is better than the +1 to save or the -1 to hit traits. The Decanter of Egos is mostly to justify why one of my sorceresses (converted from a Death Hag) has a chalice. The Anklet is probably better, but we'll see if Decanter + Command Underlings is a useful trick to get my Darkshards in range to shoot stuff. As for the Shadseliver on my general, I feel like it would be really fun to try build up her sword to deal massive damage (provided my sorceresses-can-never-hit anything curse stays away).

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Sustained by Misery
- Artefact: Shadesliver
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress (80)

Battleline
20 x Black Guard (320)
10 x Executioners (180)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Darkshards (200)

Allies
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (140)
1 x Bloodwrack Medusae (120)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1980/ 2000

It is really painful for Darklings that even a rubbishy Dreadlord isn't part of the faction so that you could hit something (with more attacks). I guess your taking an extra Sorceress instead of some more Bleakswords for more Mortal Wound output? Because that would be the one thing I did I think just so you had a bit more resilience on the field. 

[GammaMage]

Well, up till now I've been playing two casters in my army, a Sorceress and a Loremaster (didn't have a dragon yet). I actually misread the Hand of Glory spell, and had been using it to make my all executioners reroll failed hits instead of just one model. But in the last few games I played, I felt like I should be casting Word of Pain, Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield every turn. So that's the reason for the three sorceresses on foot. That and I like the idea of having a coven of foot sorcresses representing the maiden/mother/crone trinity. But I'll take your suggestion under advisement, I'll keep an eye on them in my next few games and see if I'm playing too many.

[AlmGandix3]

Interesting Army idea i thougt of an army list too and want to share it for some ideas.

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300) - General

Command Trait : Impossibly Swift or Effortless Grace ( need to test it in battle but i think Swift is better)

Darkling Sword

Artefact :  Shadesliver   (used on the Claws of the Dragon because it is limited to melee weapons of the model)
Units
20 x Black Guard (320)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Executioners (180)

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Total: 1480/ 2000 Points
 

10 x 3 Darkshards also means that i get 3 Champions in a "30 man unit"

 

I also thougt about adding storm cast to fill some places but i dont want to use them even when they are good. Dark elf armys should be dark elves only in my eyes even if they would be better with stormcast. Maybe i will use two scourgerunner chariots instead of the hydra or some cavalry but the hydra is realy good for the points

[GammaMage]

You can't use the Shadesliver on any of the black dragon's attacks, due to this on page 117 of the GHB2017:

"Some heroes have a mount, such as a battlesteed, a powerful monster that they can ride, or a massive war machine that they can stand upon. In all such cases, any command abilities or magical artefacts can only be used to affect attacks made by the hero, and have no effect on attacks made by their mount unless specifically stated otherwise."

The Hydra is a good idea, not sure why I didn't think of it myself. I might try to find some space for one now. Out of interest, why are you going with the 20 Black Guard / 10 Executioners instead of the other way around? I am going that way too, but it's mostly because I like the look of the Black Guard more.

 

[AlmGandix3]

The Black Guard has a 2" range and with 20 Executioners not everyone can always attack so the points can be waisted. But you are right the extra 20 points would perfectly round it up to 1500 i will try it out if i have the chance. Ofcourse if you have 20 Executioners and you use the Battalion abillity and all can attack, after the combat phase there should not stand any enemies in 3 inches

[AlmGandix3]

And if i can only use shadesilver on the sword or the whip i think the 6 up save artifact could also be a good option

[Burf]

18 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

And if i can only use shadesilver on the sword or the whip i think the 6 up save artifact could also be a good option

The 'immune to magic and shooting ha ha ha go ahead and take the turn 1-2 double turn loser, idgaf!' Relic is probably the best. At least for Drag Sorcs.

[Nasnad]

I see a lot of people only using darkshards, what about bleakswords and dreadspears? or are the black guards/executioners just better?

How about generic order mixed dark elves, are they worth it over an darkling covens army?