GH2017 - Gutbusters Discussion

[Infeston]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post in this forum I think. I earlier registered here but never visited again after that. But after all the leaks of the GHB2017I thought this might be a good place to discuss this topic, because for me this is very important. 

I startet playing Ogre Kingdoms with Warhammer Fantasy and was super excited that the Gutbusters found their way to the Age of Sigmar. I got even more excited after the release of the Beastclaw Raiders Book. I read a lot about the lore and found out that sometimes the Beastclaw and Gutbuster tribes meet each other to share their meals together. 

But after I had seen the leaks of the new GHB2017 I got really sad, because there was nothing in it for a Gutbusters player like me. As GW talked about the new Handbook they said that they wanted to update the factions, which got left behind. I also hoped after I had seen the newest "army books" that I would see a lot of different spells for Destruction wizards. Something like different spells for Butchers, Waaaagh! magic for Weirdnobs etc. 

After I had seen the leaks about points I think Gutbusters are in a pretty bad state at the moment. Especially because the old "Destruction Allegiance abilites" got nerfed very hard. I can see where these nerfs are coming from. But now as a Gutbusters player I only seem as allies of Beastclaw Raiders. 

My deepest dream would have come true if they had gotten extra allegiance abilites, spells and command traits. 

Another thing I have never understood is why Maneaters and Firebellies are seperate factions. I also had hoped that Maneaters would get a price reduction. I would say they are definitely weaker than Ironguts, but cost more. I think they are beautiful miniatures but I can't see them in a game, because they are not worth the price. Why don't summarize them all under "Gutbusters" Allegiance?

I had hoped that GW seperated these factions from each other, because they wanted to expand on them later. But at the moment I have the feeling that GW isn't interested in investing in Ogors anymore. I found the idea of an Ogor Alliance extremely unique for a fantasy game. There are no other game systems where Ogres have an own organized faction. This is what made AoS and Warhammer Fantasy unique for me. 

But at the moment as a Gutbusters player i feel really left behind, especially because I had hoped that in the new GHB2017 there would be some ogor love. Maybe GW is working on a new Gutbusters book right at the moment. But for me it doesn't look that way.

What do you think about the state of the Gutbusters?

[Kessler]

Yes, surprisingly they did not get any update. They lost much needed +1 to hit from Bellowing Tyrant, bonus movement and both artifacts that had any point. And no battalions as well. I just hope ogors will get new book.

Points reduction was nice, but considering that they seldom hit anything (4+ to hit all over the faction...) it does not help much.

I really liked the old Destructions allegiance rules - they gave to pretty straightforward ogors some variation possibility, were interesting and forced you to use different tactics. New abilities are just nice to have, you use them if dice roll very well, but can never use them in your tactics. But let`s just keep our heads up, carry on and wait until we get special Book of Gutbusters.

Or throw in a Thundertusk/Mournfang for mobility and damage.

I think points for Maneteaters are okay compared to Ironguts: slightly worse armor and damage, but more attacks, much better to hit ratio plus missile weapons and special ability.

[Lysandestolpe]

Yup, we kinda have to wait. I have a large gutbuster army that will sit on the shelf for now while I let my Ironjawz be my primary and my Khorne bloodbound be let out of the pound. I hope they do work on a Gutbuster Book, because that faction really is amazingly fun to play. Especially with gargants.

[someone2040]

As a non-Destruction player, I don't really think an ability like the old Destruction allegiance ability fit that well. You're destruction, so you go faster? Well, that could just be baked into the warscrolls. Personally I feel the new one sounds like it fits a lot more, even if it's a lot weaker.

 

As to Gutbusters. The question isn't necessarily going to be how much they got better (They did! A few things in the list got much needed decreases), but how much the rest of the field got worse. Gutbusters seemed to be pretty strong early on in AoS in fan based comp systems, but GHB probably overcosted them a tad too much. Then you've got the fact there was no battalions for them and not many characters, so a lack of synergies to play around with.

The way I see it, Gutbusters are actually a somewhat balanced faction. Primarily combat based, but with enough shooting (Especially if you ally in some Maneaters) to make the faction interesting.

 

What I dislike though, is the fact Destruction didn't get any allegiance abilities other than Ironjawz.

Gutbuster, Greenskinz, Gitmob, Moonclan are all fairly well fleshed out races, that are unlikely to get a battletome any time soon. Perhaps I'm wrong (and who knows, maybe a combined Destruction tome is coming soon?), but it certainly feels disappointing that none of those factions got allegiance abilities. Especially I guess from a Destruction players point of view, that essentially the allegiance abilities got nerfed (and hence, it's a nerf to all factions that need to use the Grand Alliance abilities).

Which is a shame. Gutbusters are/were one of the armies I'm interesting in starting. I actually almost started them (bought a bunch of models and everything) before selling most of them off. I collect Slaves to Darkness/Mixed Chaos and Free Peoples, and at the time, backed out because I wasn't interested in starting another army I felt would not get much support. I'm much happier now with a lot of armies getting allegiance abilities in GHB, makes me feel we're not forgotten and makes the factions more interesting.

That's why I'm disappointed mainly that Destruction didn't get anything. It doesn't make any of the factions more appealing to play.

[heywoah_twitch]

How do you think leadbelchers are now?  Do you run any and if so how have they fared? Can I make a cannon spam army that isn't terrible? I like cannons.

[Infeston]

8 hours ago, someone2040 said:

What I dislike though, is the fact Destruction didn't get any allegiance abilities other than Ironjawz.

Gutbuster, Greenskinz, Gitmob, Moonclan are all fairly well fleshed out races, that are unlikely to get a battletome any time soon. Perhaps I'm wrong (and who knows, maybe a combined Destruction tome is coming soon?), but it certainly feels disappointing that none of those factions got allegiance abilities. Especially I guess from a Destruction players point of view, that essentially the allegiance abilities got nerfed (and hence, it's a nerf to all factions that need to use the Grand Alliance abilities).

Which is a shame. Gutbusters are/were one of the armies I'm interesting in starting. I actually almost started them (bought a bunch of models and everything) before selling most of them off. I collect Slaves to Darkness/Mixed Chaos and Free Peoples, and at the time, backed out because I wasn't interested in starting another army I felt would not get much support. I'm much happier now with a lot of armies getting allegiance abilities in GHB, makes me feel we're not forgotten and makes the factions more interesting.

That's why I'm disappointed mainly that Destruction didn't get anything. It doesn't make any of the factions more appealing to play.

I can totally sign that. The problem for me is that Ironjawz got wonderful fluffy abilites which fit their theme, but none of the other Destruction factions got anything. The thing that bothers me most is not the whole Destruction ability nerf, but more that all other Destruction forces got nothing. And as I remember GW stated before that they will give abilites to the factions which didn't get anything before. 

Also I would've been happy if they added special spells for Destruction wizards. Almost every other faction got special spells for their heroes if they choose a special allegiance. There would be so many possibilites.

For example cunning and sneaky Allegiance abilites for Grots, for Ogors it could have something to do with guts and blood, maybe their abilites could get better the more they fight, or they could get abilites like consuming parts of their enemies and heal D3 wounds. Gutbusters could be a force with a theme, where they heal or get stronger for every enemy the consume. So maybe an ability where you have to roll after you kill an enemy and if you roll right you can heal a certain amount of wounds. This would be so cool and give Gutbusters a unique feeling. 

For me the abilites don't even have to be competitively viable. They just have to portray the essence of their factions.

Another thing that also bothers me is why did Stromcast get to have Allies from each Order faction and Ironjawz can only ally with Grots and Greenskins. In the Beastclaw books it even says that the Beastclaw tribes follow Gordrakk in his mighty WAAGH! There is even a battalion consisting of Ironjawz and Ogors in the book. I don't understand why Ironjawz can't ally with the Ogors whereby Stromcast ally with Darkling Covens etc. It doesn't make sense for me.

 

Edit: Also sorry if my english isn't that good. I am a filthy german. :-D

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

How do you think leadbelchers are now?  Do you run any and if so how have they fared? Can I make a cannon spam army that isn't terrible? I like cannons.

Sure! Because they are Leadbelchers hit quite decent in combat and remain battleline if you bring a Ironblaster  Would be fun to play against! Although I wouldn't expect to win every game  But you'll win some and lose some. 

[Kessler]

I like leadbelchers a lot. Cool models, but they require good luck: no move (for 1d6 attacks) plus good rolls for attack numbers can be devastating 18 shots... Or you just might get 3 shots :).

Their melee is not bad either: compared to regular ogors, 1 attack less, but rend -1 makes up for that. They were a bit too expensive for 160 points, with point decrease I happily take them.

I have used them and wiped out a thundertusk with one volley... or killed two bloodletters with 6 of them.

However, they really miss the 1d6 Destruction move, that allowed them to move and still shoot 1d6 shots...

[Nogle]

I'm just bummed that man-eaters stayed 220. That is too expensive to be allies(for a unit of six, that is)