GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Malakree]

52 minutes ago, muggins said:

So after reading again, slowness is my main worry. I was actually thinking about bringing an ironfist instead of one brute mob to counteract that. I didn't bring a warchanter because I wanted to focus on getting more bodies in the list. 

So imo if you want speed go for the 2x3 ggs and 2 rock lobbas variation.

That counteracts the mobility by giving you both speed and reach. Combined with your mates Morghast and monster you should have enough mobility.

[Brakkus]

Playing a 2k game tonight against mixed Nurgle army. I'll be taking the following. Any comments/suggestions are welcome:

Maw Krusha - Ironclad, Metalrippa Klaw

Warchanter

Warchanter

Shaman

Brutes x10 - gore hackas, 2 special weapons, boss w/klaw

Brutes x5 - 2 handed weapons, 1 special, boss w/klaw

20 boyz - 10 w/shield, 10 dual wield, drummer, banner

3 gruntas

3 gruntas

Ironskull's Boyz

2000/2000

 

We're playing a random scenario w/open war cards, which is always fun. Plan is to keep Ironskull unit back on any objective that may be in my deployment zone. Cabbage and 10 brutes are the heavy hitters. Chanter supports each or, if needed, gives one squad +2 to hit. Smaller brute squad goes after smaller objective holders or can act as a speedbump if needed to hold up something for a turn or two. 

Gruntas are flanking/harassment units. Go after far away objectives if needed. 20 boyz are the tarpit/screening/shielding unit. The 10 shields should give a bit more survivability while the 10 dual wielders try and do the damage. 

 Any other thoughts/comments on my logic or gameplan going in? Admittedly, this will only be my second game under GH17 so I'm trying to learn and get better. I do have other models available in my collection, so the list isn't locked in. Thanks!

[Sangfroid]

Nice list and your plan with each of the units is sound, when you set up make sure warchanters are also in range of Goregruntas as well as the Megaboss, that way if the opportunity presents itself you can buff them (and move with mighty destroyers early if lucky) and get an early charge in if it’s useful or needed. +1 to hit on the ? ? ? Makes these guys pretty decent imo. 

[Whitespyre]

On 30/11/2017 at 3:15 PM, Brakkus said:

Playing a 2k game tonight against mixed Nurgle army. I'll be taking the following. Any comments/suggestions are welcome:

Maw Krusha - Ironclad, Metalrippa Klaw

Warchanter

Warchanter

Shaman

Brutes x10 - gore hackas, 2 special weapons, boss w/klaw

Brutes x5 - 2 handed weapons, 1 special, boss w/klaw

20 boyz - 10 w/shield, 10 dual wield, drummer, banner

3 gruntas

3 gruntas

Ironskull's Boyz

2000/2000

 

We're playing a random scenario w/open war cards, which is always fun. Plan is to keep Ironskull unit back on any objective that may be in my deployment zone. Cabbage and 10 brutes are the heavy hitters. Chanter supports each or, if needed, gives one squad +2 to hit. Smaller brute squad goes after smaller objective holders or can act as a speedbump if needed to hold up something for a turn or two. 

Gruntas are flanking/harassment units. Go after far away objectives if needed. 20 boyz are the tarpit/screening/shielding unit. The 10 shields should give a bit more survivability while the 10 dual wielders try and do the damage. 

 Any other thoughts/comments on my logic or gameplan going in? Admittedly, this will only be my second game under GH17 so I'm trying to learn and get better. I do have other models available in my collection, so the list isn't locked in. Thanks!

Nice list, but I think your over in points. You’d maybe need to drop a warchanter, and change to ironfist to make 2000

[Whitespyre]

Oops just realised my mistake 

[Brakkus]

Unfortunately my opponent had to cancel, so I wasn't able to get a game in and try out the list

[Lanoss]

Has anybody had an attempt at taking advantage of the ‘+1 bravery for every 10 models in a unit’ rule in the MRB?

Does this make the ironjawz are worthwhile horde army?

i threw together a list

MK (460)
Warchanter (80)
Brutes x15 (540)
Ard Boyz x30 (450)
GG x3 (140)
GG x3 (140)
GG x3 / maybe Warboss (140)
Iron fist (160)
((1970))

 

Love to know everyone’s thoughts!

[Malakree]

24 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Has anybody had an attempt at taking advantage of the ‘+1 bravery for every 10 models in a unit’ rule in the MRB?

Does this make the ironjawz are worthwhile horde army?

i threw together a list

MK (460)
Warchanter (80)
Brutes x15 (540)
Ard Boyz x30 (450)
GG x3 (140)
GG x3 (140)
GG x3 / maybe Warboss (140)
Iron fist (160)
((1970))

 

Love to know everyone’s thoughts!

So the thing is you would be better just going bloodtoofs with that list. It's an unconditional +2 bravery for all units which is way better. While it's awesome for Ardboys, who get up to 10 bravery with the 20+ but for brutes just take the Bloodtoofs.

[Andrew G]

Hey guys, new the forum but I've recently been getting back into Sigmar and picked up Ironjawz.

I've been running this list, and have a question about artefacts.

MK(460) (Ironclad, Destroyer)

Troll Hag (360) 

Brute x 10 (360)

Brute x 5 (180)

Brute x 5 (180)

GGx 3 (140)

GGx 3 (140)

Ironfist (160)

((1980))

Can I utlize the Ironfist battalion to equip the allied Troll Hag with another artefact? I've been running the +1 Bravery, -1 Bravery item on the troll hag but some of the more experienced guys I play with couldn't give a definitive answer on whether it was legal to equip an ironjawz artefact on an allied leader.

Besides that, I've been having decent success with the list but I might change it up if I can't boost most the brute units to bravery 7.

 

 

[Malakree]

I don't think the troggoth hag can have an artefact since she can't use ironjawz ones can she?

Drop the 2 blocks of 5 brutes, swap them into 3 gg's to go with your units of 3 (so 2x6) then take a warchanter. 

[tolstedt]

22 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I don't think the troggoth hag can have an artefact since she can't use ironjawz ones can she?

Allies can't take artefacts.

[someone2040]

1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

Allies can't take artefacts.

That's not technically true in the global sense, but it is true for any of the specific allegiance abilities to date.

 

What I mean by this, is that it's specifically up to the Allegiance Abilities to describe who benefits and can take what. Most specific allegiance abilities specify a keyword (Such as STORMCAST ETERNALS HEROES may be given an Artefact).

So generally the only case where allies can get Artefacts currently are if you run an allegiance such as GREENSKINZ but decide to use the DESTRUCTION allegiance abilities (Since Greenskinz do not have any specific allegiances of their own to use anyway).

 

So the Troggoth hag cannot take an artefact if you use the Ironjawz allegiance abilities. She could take an artefact if you decided to use Destruction instead.

 

EDIT: Hmm... I'm not actually sure if the above is true. In all the GHB allegiance abilities it doesn't actually post restrictions on which types of Heroes can take the artefacts. I don't have access to any of my other battletomes either, where I'm sure there's a line specifying what keyworded heroes can take what.

That being said... pretty sure it's certainly the case that allies aren't intended to get artefacts from specific allegiances...

Artefacts being the only place where this matters (Because Battle traits are worded with keywords involved and allies can't be the General and hence get a Command Trait)

[PlasticCraic]

It still annoys me that Lightening Chariot doesn't specify Stormcast!

(I know it's a prayer and not an artefact, but still).

[Aelfric]

23 hours ago, someone2040 said:

That's not technically true in the global sense, but it is true for any of the specific allegiance abilities to date.

 

What I mean by this, is that it's specifically up to the Allegiance Abilities to describe who benefits and can take what. Most specific allegiance abilities specify a keyword (Such as STORMCAST ETERNALS HEROES may be given an Artefact).

So generally the only case where allies can get Artefacts currently are if you run an allegiance such as GREENSKINZ but decide to use the DESTRUCTION allegiance abilities (Since Greenskinz do not have any specific allegiances of their own to use anyway).

 

So the Troggoth hag cannot take an artefact if you use the Ironjawz allegiance abilities. She could take an artefact if you decided to use Destruction instead.

 

EDIT: Hmm... I'm not actually sure if the above is true. In all the GHB allegiance abilities it doesn't actually post restrictions on which types of Heroes can take the artefacts. I don't have access to any of my other battletomes either, where I'm sure there's a line specifying what keyworded heroes can take what.

That being said... pretty sure it's certainly the case that allies aren't intended to get artefacts from specific allegiances...

Artefacts being the only place where this matters (Because Battle traits are worded with keywords involved and allies can't be the General and hence get a Command Trait)

According to the GHB, Artifacts are part of Allegiance abilities ( description at the head of each faction abilities section ) and under factions and allies ( page 86 ) the example of Brayherds says that allies can not use their allegiance abilities.  So it seems fairly clear that allies cannot use Artifacts.

[someone2040]

10 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

According to the GHB, Artifacts are part of Allegiance abilities ( description at the head of each faction abilities section ) and under factions and allies ( page 86 ) the example of Brayherds says that allies can not use their allegiance abilities.  So it seems fairly clear that allies cannot use Artifacts.

Hmm it's very disappointing that this kind of information is spread out, and there are words elsewhere that indicate potentially otherwise.

For example, on page 76 the following is mentioned

Quote

Remember that in most cases allegiances abilities only work for units with the appropriate keyword. So, for example, STORMCAST ETERNALS allegiance abilities would only apply to the STORMCAST ETERNALS units in the army, and not their allies.

To me, these two are potentially at odds with each other when it comes to the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities.

For example, if I built an Order Draconis army with allies, can my allies benefit from the Order Battle Trait or not? Because I would perhaps think, that the wording on page 86 indicates they actually can't, while the wording on page 76 indicates they can.

 

To me, the intent is likely clear. Battle Traits are used as described. Command Traits and Artefacts can only be given to models in your allegiance (Command Traits implicitly only allow this anyway since allies cannot be the General). But it's inconsistent, and I really wish there was just a dot point list of what you can and can't do with allies in the GHB.

[Aelfric]

4 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Hmm it's very disappointing that this kind of information is spread out, and there are misleading words elsewhere.

For example, on page 76 the following is mentioned

To me, these two are potentially at odds with each other when it comes to the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities.

For example, if I built an Order Draconis army with allies, can my allies benefit from the Order Battle Trait or not? Because I would perhaps think, that the wording on page 86 indicates they actually can't, while the wording on page 76 indicates they can.

 

To me, the intent is likely clear. Battle Traits are used as described. Command Traits and Artefacts can only be given to models in your allegiance (Command Traits implicitly only allow this anyway since allies cannot be the General). But it's inconsistent, and I really wish there was just a dot point list of what you can and can't do with allies in the GHB.

I think you're right on the intent and I agree that it would make things a lot simpler to have a list of can and can't do's.  Still, at least now all the inconsistencies are in one book.  

[Malakree]

So there is one important thing you have overlooked.

When you pick allegiance abilities that is separate from picking your list allegiance. 

Hence if you take the destruction alleigance then for the purpose of picking abilities it's as if you were running a GADestruction rather than ironjawz.

[Lanoss]

So with the Nurgle Battletome out this week, I’ve noticed that the GUO and the special character varient are both 340 smackers each. 

Is this a new era where our big heroes and SC variants cost the same? If so, can’t wait for Gordrakk to come down!

Furthermore, with both GUO variants costing MUCH less than our Krusha variants can we see them drop to 400pts or less? -I know you read this GW ?

thoughts?

And if not, what do both Krusha’s do that’s so much more than the-now-Uber-cool GUOs??

fill me in guys. Just having a ponder 

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Lanoss said:

So with the Nurgle Battletome out this week, I’ve noticed that the GUO and the special character varient are both 340 smackers each. 

Is this a new era where our big heroes and SC variants cost the same? If so, can’t wait for Gordrakk to come down!

Furthermore, with both GUO variants costing MUCH less than our Krusha variants can we see them drop to 400pts or less? -I know you read this GW ?

thoughts?

And if not, what do both Krusha’s do that’s so much more than the-now-Uber-cool GUOs??

fill me in guys. Just having a ponder 

I looked at the new GUO and tbh with it at that point can see another 60-80 points off the MK. Especially given the stupid bell which is better than our allegiance ability. 

Basically, and I asked @Chris Tomlin this who agreed, if you want to play Ironjawz atm then the new Nurgle Rotbringers is just better.

[someone2040]

18 hours ago, Lanoss said:

So with the Nurgle Battletome out this week, I’ve noticed that the GUO and the special character varient are both 340 smackers each. 

Is this a new era where our big heroes and SC variants cost the same? If so, can’t wait for Gordrakk to come down!

Furthermore, with both GUO variants costing MUCH less than our Krusha variants can we see them drop to 400pts or less? -I know you read this GW ?

thoughts?

And if not, what do both Krusha’s do that’s so much more than the-now-Uber-cool GUOs??

fill me in guys. Just having a ponder 

I don't think so. The thing is, the GUO and Rotigus are very similar in features. Kinda with very similar amount of special rules and profiles. It's probably pretty fair that they're around the same price.

Gordrakk on the other hand has an extra wound, better attack profiles and his command ability is bloody huge, not only does it have grand alliance synergy but it effects an entire battalion. That makes it super hard to price Gordrakk because once a game he could potentially make your entire army really really choppy in the combat phase.

 

I don't really know much about the Krusha and GUO, but we can do a little comparison

Both units can deal mortal wounds on the charge

Maw-Krusha's move a lot faster than GUO, can fly, have a better armour save, can potentially deal mortal wounds on charge multiple times, have the better combat profile, get better after killing heroes, and their command ability is a bubble ability

GUO are wizards, have a special save against all damage, heal wounds in your hero phase, have an additional wound, provide movement synergy to the army, and have a reliable command ability

 

So I would say, that GW rate quite highly the ability of fast movement and ability to fly. The rest is probably a bit tit for tat, better combat ability vs toughness. GUOs are wizards though. Whether or not the GUO should be up or the Maw-Krusha should be down, is really beyond me as I'm not really familiar with either army.

[Lysandestolpe]

My opinion is that it is a dangerous slippery slope to have large monsters and heroes on such being cheap. I mean at 400 points for crusher, I’d take three no doubt and still afford an ironfist batallion. I mean, that she a cool ass idea. But three of them them tho.. i guess it adds to the list variatons a bit.

when it’s comes to valued I think units that’s have the capability’s of healing themselves each round is way more valuable than than movement. It really forces the opponents to two options: either shoot or bash out the model in one round, (especially when it heals like 8 wounds a round) or look it in combat with durable units and prevent it from moving anywhere else. Both of which can be hard to do if you’re not playing for that’s specific purpose with your army: hordes pro skyfire type lists. 

Only my cents tho.  

[Imperial]

Hello all! 
I want to ask 1 simple question! How you play against army with new battletomes? 

I just lost 1000 points (Maw Krusha, 10 brutes, moonclan shaman on balewind) from my roster after SE  shooting phase and Stardrake charge to brutes 

SE list: 
Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Relictor (80)
Lord-Relictor (80)
Knight-Azyros (80)
Knight-Venator (120)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
3 x Aetherwings (60)

Battalions
Aetherstrike Force (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90
 

 

[Lysandestolpe]

13 hours ago, Imperial said:

Hello all! 
I want to ask 1 simple question! How you play against army with new battletomes? 

I just lost 1000 points (Maw Krusha, 10 brutes, moonclan shaman on balewind) from my roster after SE  shooting phase and Stardrake charge to brutes 

SE list: 
Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Relictor (80)
Lord-Relictor (80)
Knight-Azyros (80)
Knight-Venator (120)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
3 x Aetherwings (60)

Battalions
Aetherstrike Force (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90
 

 

You get new dice everytime you dont roll 6 on turn one for all your heroes so you can push units up, use ironfist and smash and bash their army on turn 1.

on a serious note,

the best chance you have is, since you do have a first drop is to spread out your gruntas on thr flank and try to get into combat with his longstrike bows. If you can, get the charge on his stardrake with your brutes and hit there first. 

If he deploys so you can allow for him to have the first turn, then give him that and go for the doubble turn. 

Dont feel bad, truly, ironjawz and destruction have uphill atm. And we just have to power through and await our turn again to get some goodies.

[PlasticCraic]

On 1/18/2018 at 7:59 AM, Imperial said:

Hello all! 
I want to ask 1 simple question! How you play against army with new battletomes? 

I just lost 1000 points (Maw Krusha, 10 brutes, moonclan shaman on balewind) from my roster after SE  shooting phase and Stardrake charge to brutes 

 

Yeah as @Lysandestolpe has said, this is a very hard matchup.  Aetherstrike is a top tier army (or very close to it) and matches up very well against Ironjawz. 

I have beaten a similar army with a mini alpha strike.  Basically they placed their Drake front and centre, I placed my MK right opposite, I took first turn and smashed it off the board turn 1.  With a single Mighty Destroyers move you will have a 6” charge (which is a 5” charge).  His head dropped and it was plain sailing.  Obviously I gave the MBMK Mystic Shield + Frenzy before I sent him on his way…I also ran up some units to within 15” to guarantee the Waaagh! and give the best chance of shock and awe.  I always use Metalrippa too FWIW.

You can’t guarantee that you will face an arrogant / careless opponent like that…but if you do, it’s worth remembering.

As Vanguard Wings go, this isn’t the very strongest on paper imo (you really need a 9-man Longstrike punishment squad for that).  The Azyros is such a pain in the butt, I’d happily cop a round of shooting to get rid of him, but otherwise focus on the Longstrikes (if you can get anywhere near them).  If you’re feeling bold (and / or have Arcane terrain available), remember that Foot of Gork doesn’t require Line of Sight, so even if they’re completely hidden you can still target them that way.

What are you running?  If you’re happy to tailor your own list, Goblin artillery is very powerful in this matchup.  You can start sniping off his key pieces turn 1 AND be out of range for any Aetherstrike retaliation!  I’d go for his Azyros first personally, followed by the Longstrikes, but you might prefer to go straight for the Longstrikes.  If you play with a lot of scenery I’d suggest Rock Lobbas, otherwise Spear Chukkas.

Mortal wounds are Stormcast’s kryptonite (ours too of course, but we also have many other failings and a much more restricted toolbox to work with!).  One opportunity to look out for is any way to get multiple charges out of your Maw Krusha.  This can achieved by softening up a unit in the hero phase (magic) and shooting phase (hello again Grot artillery), then smashing it off the board with your charge, and charging off again. 

In some cases, it’s also one of the few ways the new Mighty Destroyers can actually be a good thing.  You can charge in your hero phase and get the mortals, then you know exactly how much damage you need to put into that unit with magic + shooting to clear it off.  So if you clear it off quicker than expected you can use some shooting elsewhere, and still be free to charge off again + do more mortal wounds.  If you’re really lucky you might even knock something down a tier BEFORE you shoot into it (e.g. Dryads) and make their save worse…be careful though, you might also knock them down below bonus size for the Rock Lobbas if you’re using them! 

It’s gonna be a hard matchup whatever you do, but those are some things I’ve picked up from playing against it.  Hope that helps.

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

Hi guys, brand new to Ironjawz (they are my Malign Portents army for the next couple of months) so I was looking at an army I can build towards. 

I'm wanting to know if you thunk this list may be too harsh,  I'd just play it the local club and I'm never to win at all costs but just play for fun, having said that I know the guys down there like to go all out so I'm trying to mix in an interesting list that could have some fun but also go toe to toe with some of the tougher armies out there.

I also have not acquired the Battletomb yet so forgive anything that is incorrect

Leaders

Gordrakk (620)

Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Units

GG (140)

GG (140)

GG (140)

Behemoths

Rogue Idol (400)

Loose plan is to run the GG with the battalion ability to get right up in their faces from turn 1, Gordrakk 3d6 charge abilty to the whole gorefist battalion should also help with that. I'm wanting run the Shaman within range of the Idol for its +1 to casting and to be a bit of a bodyguard 

Leaves me with 220 left to play with, trying to work out the best use for it?? 

I was also thinking of dropping Rogue Idol for 2 giants, this would give me enough left over for a Warchanter to run with either brutes/Ard Boyz to drop the hit rolls

 

The Behemoths are there to add a bit of fun into game for me, it's always fun to field some big Monsters!!