GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Rock Lobster]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster. Just finished my first batch of Ironjawz and took them for a test run against my friends Sylvaneth list and thought I would provide some feedback.

This is a long post so I apologise and I hope there is value in parts of the analysis and feedback.

We agreed 100% painted units only and since I hadn’t finished my gore gruntas yet we agreed to 2,040 points to substitute those guys for ard boyz. We ended up playing the mission with the falling objectives in random locations.

 

My list:

Megaboss Ballsmasha on Maw Krusha

(Ironclad

, Metal-ripper)

Troll Hag

2 x war chanter (one with boss sticka)

2 x 10 brutes with choppas

10 Ard Boyz

Ironfist

 

His list:

Treelord ancient with the skills that make it 2+ rerollable save and ignores rend if not -2 or greater

Branchwraith (cant recall item)

3 x 3 Kurnoth Hunters with bows

2 x 3 Kurnoth Hunters with swords

2 x 5 revenants (the teleporty kind)

20 Dryads

Some battalion, which did something nasty

I hadn’t played Sylvaneth before (have not played many games of AOS so not surprising) so it was a tough matchup, Sylvaneth had lots of speed with teleporting, really high armour and rerolls, regen, and a bundle of mortal wounds from these forests all the time – and new forests appeared constantly.

He deployed spread out to cover the table for where the objectives would land, I knew I would lose if I couldn’t keep my army close for abilities and ran on one flank to put some of his shooting out of range and gamble on where the objectives would fall.

I thought it was going to be a tabling in his favor, but thanks to a bit of luck with the objectives falling center and my flank rather than in the open flank I was able to pull out a big major victory, but one where the points didn’t reflect how the close the battle was.

Rather than go through a battle report I will give feedback on items frequently discussed in the forums based on this experience.

 

Megaboss and artifact

This guy is a tank and fast. In combat from turn 1 and fighting 2 units of Kurnoth hunters and the treelord ancient solo, finally dying in turn 4 killing both units of Kurnoth hunters in the process even though they resurrected 3 hunters.

The obvious lesson was to stay the hell away from the woods, between their mortal wounds constantly and the stomp of the Kurnoth hunters, 11 of the 14 wounds suffered were mortal wounds.

So onto artifact. Super tough choice between metal-ripper, armour of gork and dabbing. If I had the dabbing I would have survived another turn in theory… however what is often forgotten is that you will take additional wounds in combat from the stuff you are not killing – particularly from things like the hunters which can all inflict a mortal wound.

Without the metal-ripper I would not have killed both of those units, and I believe still would have died as the damage is just too low.

I did notice however a bunch of saves of 5+6 from my Maw Krusha. Probably 10 over the 4 turns which with the mystic shield and armour of Gork would have been another 10 wounds dealt on the enemy. Potentially worth someone doing the math on what has higher damage potential to the enemy, the metal-ripper, or reflecting wounds with the Armour of Gork… I suspect the latter and will try it.

 

Troll Hag

I chose her because she did everything I wanted in 1 model, spell casting, high rend shooting and another tank to take heat off the brutes.

She was a superstar, what a great addition to an IJ list. With vomit and combat killed 2 units of Kurnoth Hunters, 5 revenants, a branch wraith, did the mystic shield duty and regened back to full strength by game end as well as protecting an objective.

That shooting is super solid and reliable. For people looking at 2 bolt throwers and a shaman, for the same points consider the hag which is, much shorter ranged but more powerful and reliable in shooting, better in magic with spell spite and a great debuff spell (also doesn’t kill your own dudes), much more durable, and very effective in combat with the right opponents. She is a jack of all trades.

When my boss was dead, the troll hags curse is an awesome ability on the bow Kurnoth hunters, -1 hit and -1 armour is terrible for them, and her additional -1 to hit the hag in combat and regen makes it almost impossible for your opponent to land blows and leave wounds that stick. The debuff was so useful I am considering a second caster so she can use it more freely, if I have access to it, maybe I don’t need the metal-ripper as I can chip away at armour with that.

 

Units of 10 brutes

This was not the matchup for them, but they did their duty in taking hits, capturing objectives and killing some enemies. Their rend -1 struggled against 3+ rerollable armour save kurnoth hunters sitting in terrain. Really it was the boss with his brute smasha that cleared them out.

I am going to abandon the 10s for 5s, there were times I wanted to split these guys up to tackle smaller units at the same time as capturing objectives and just couldn’t. These really should be MSU now I feel since it nets you an extra boss which is cool.

This was against an elite army however so who knows, those 10 slamming into a horde is beautiful, but I think the flexibility of the 5 man units is where it is at.

I didn’t fail any battleshock tests (thanks to my boss-sticka) but it was super hairy and 1 bad dice roll would mean a unit made redundant. Bravery is a massive issue.

 

10 ard boyz

This guys have got the shaft in most lists I have seen outside of the 30 man blocks. This might be a mistake as I feel the 10 man blocks have value.

My unit was used to move around to wait for the objectives to drop and then jump on it. They did this well sitting in terrain to hold the objective and then completely occupy 3 kurnoth hunters with swords and 20 dryads for the rest of the game with minimal casualties, 20 wounds a 3+ save in cover is great for that.

The one overlooked us of the ardboyz over brutes is their speed. With the banner for +2 to charge this gives +3 charge bonus with IJ allegiance, allowing my guys to make huge charges in clearing little units in the backfield or revenants trying to hunt warchanters or sneak onto objectives, suprising my opponent with their speed when combined with the Ironfist (he thought I would have to draw away brutes as the ard boyz were so far).

Gore Gruntas can also do this however with their speed at lower cost, but I do worry that the lack of models is going to surrender objectives, particularly since they don’t have the punch to clear enemy models. So many times I won an objective by having just a few more guys than my opponent, and gore gruntas would just be sat on by a unit that they couldn’t clear quickly who would outnumber them to claim an objective.

 

Warchanter

These guys are amazing, you should have 2, if you don’t even have 1 you are making a big mistake. Used on brutes or on the cabbage is so good.

Also don’t forget that they are not made of glass, my opponent went hunting for them thinking they would be like wizards and was surprised to find 6 wounds, a 4+ save and a guy who can inflict 1-2 wound himself in combat, if you need to he can be chucked into the frey to divert enemy attacks on brute units to reduce battleshock too.

 

Ironfist

It seems the trend of tournament lists is to drop the ironfist now. I am torn on that. The extra movement made it actually possible to catch the Sylvaneth and reposition in a way that would not have been possible without it.

I think it is valuable for the movement but if you are running brutes you really need it for the boss sticka. Stuck on a warchanter and giving +1 to bravery of my guys and -1 to his when in range probably cost a unit of kurnoth hunters and saved 3-4 brutes over the game.

When evaluating the benefits of the battalion you need to evaluate the artifact as well. The boss sticka massively improves on one of Ironjawz biggest weaknesses.

If I had dropped the ironfist, I would have gained another gore grunta unit, but at the expense of losing an equivalent points of Brutes to battleshock, and that isn’t even considering the extra movement.

 

Mighty destroyers

Lots of hate on mighty destroyers vs the old +D6 to movement, but actually it is quite good in ways people don’t realize. Chris mentioned the fact you can activate it twice on one unit like a catapult 12” forward which is really cool.

The fact that it is unreliable but a flat 6” move is good tactically as with the old destruction ability opponents would factor for positioning based on dice averages for a D6 roll and stay out of range, and when you moved often it was the guys you wanted to get stuck in slumped 1” and others who needed to stay back launched 6”.

This new ability allows you to pick the one unit you really want getting stuck in and throw them forward, 6” or even 12” with luck, making it impossible for your opponent to be certain they are safe from a charge. My opponent ignored it as an unlikely possibility of happening, allowing me to get stuck into far away foes, if an opponent does factor it in, they have to leave a massive bubble of potential which limits their movement.

This is actually a very good ability if used in a smart way and in some ways an improvement over the old rule even though everyone thinks it is a hard nerf.

Anyway, that is all from me, I hope someone got some value out of that and it inspires some thoughts.

 

[Sangfroid]

@Rock Lobster great post and result!

agree with a lot of what you have said there the ironclad Mawkrusha combo is so addictive I even used it the other day when I had an army with 3x10 brutes where bestial charisma would have been a great choice. I tried the armour of Gork at BLACKOUT and found that while potentially could dish out a lot of mortals it didn’t happen too much (maybe 6 or so over 5 games) this was mainly I think because rend of opponents dropping the 5+ down to a 6, even so agaisnt a low/no rend horde like FEC or bloodbound I reckon it could be amazing though my head has been turned my meatrippa because it gives us that piece that can confidently take on treelords and stardrakes etc... (particularly the stardrake as they won’t be able to heal agaisnt our -2 attacks) 

Troggoth Hag is brilliant 8 games so far she hasn’t died once, in two games got taken down as low as 2 wounds but with the heal ended up the game on 11+ wounds in both cases. Not auto include I think becaus pe the range of Grot artillery could be advantageous sometimes, or more ironjawz and a formation (you points on IFist are right) but still a very fun and strong choice. 

Only issue I have with mighty destroyers is that you can’t pick which action which can be frustrating if you want to move something but they are inside of 12” but hey ho very happy with IJ allegience overall so am not complaining :-)

[Banglesprout]

Thanks for the report @Rock Lobster, really interesting.

Regarding the Mega-krusha & artifact hmm.. I think you guys have opened my eyes somewhat to the value of metal-ripper! Previously I'd just gone the straight-forward orcy thinking that daubing keeps my megaboss general and coolest model live, so can only be a good thing, and it affects the whole model, where as the weapons only affect part of it. I can definitely see metal-ripper being good if you're fighting something like that treeman though!

My gobliny heart really wants to love Armour of Mork, it's such a sneeky gotcha.. but.. because it's affected by rend I don't see it working against precisely the stuff I want it to work against - other people's big killy stuff.

On the Ironfist - nice to hear the boss skewer working for you! I've been tending to think that an extra unit of ladz is a better choice than the battalions, but boss skewer is the item I've been putting in my lists when I do have Ironfist.

And yey for the Troll hag. I do love trolls generally, so it's cool to hear from you and @Sangfroid that she worked so well for you. Must admit I took a look at her but thought "why not just have a cheap mage, and then another unit of brutes or similar?" but perhaps I've underestimated her

Mighty Destroyers - I did wonder at one point if it might be a fun idea to get lots of cheap heroes (hello warchanters / goblin shamans) to try and maximise the chance of getting this, but decided it's too unreliable to base my hero choices around. One question occured to me regarding using it multiple times on a single unit: do you roll for all your heroes before moving a unit? So if a unit starts near two heroes who both get the result it can go 12"? Or do you roll for a hero, then make the units move, meaning if you wanted to use it on the same unit they'd have to use their first move to go to within 6" of the second hero.. like a bizarre relay race?

And yeah I too wish we could move instead of going for a 12" charge..

[Rock Lobster]

5 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

I tried the armour of Gork at BLACKOUT and found that while potentially could dish out a lot of mortals it didn’t happen too much (maybe 6 or so over 5 games) this was mainly I think because rend of opponents dropping the 5+ down to a 6, even so agaisnt a low/no rend horde like FEC or bloodbound I reckon it could be amazing though my head has been turned my meatrippa because it gives us that piece that can confidently take on treelords and stardrakes etc... (particularly the stardrake as they won’t be able to heal agaisnt our -2 attacks) 

That is true, although the ironclad makes him a nightmare against elite infantry with rend -1 with the armour of Gork as with mystic shield he can take on say rival brutes and reflect wounds on a 5+ still .So for every 6 wounds you take, you inflict 2 on them and 1 on you. But I take your point since I dont think these elites are what we struggle against necesarily and losing the metal-ripper makes it tough to kill the nasty monsters. My thought though is that the Maw Krusha costs more points then both dragon and treelords, so we might actually be better distracting those monsters (maybe troll hag) and using the cabbage to crush other valuable units.

I am really torn on this, I really can't decide which item to go with. I'll try both but I think the Metal-ripper is the goto first.

5 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Troggoth Hag is brilliant 8 games so far she hasn’t died once, in two games got taken down as low as 2 wounds but with the heal ended up the game on 11+ wounds in both cases. Not auto include I think becaus pe the range of Grot artillery could be advantageous sometimes, or more ironjawz and a formation (you points on IFist are right) but still a very fun and strong choice. 

I agree, the range is a pain, my worry with the goblin artillery is it getting caught behind lines and killed by deepstrike type units, my warchanters struggled with this and they were keeping close to my army, for the bolt throwers they could end up isolated or with a chunk of points baby sitting them and out of the fight. Against most armies through outside of sneaky order it should be fine though. I think my list isn't smark with the ironfist and trolls, if you are ironfisting, you should maximize the number of units in it so I really should consider swapping the troll for more troops or dropping the ironfist, but the extra rend and range was so useful from the troll I am not sure what could replace it.

5 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Only issue I have with mighty destroyers is that you can’t pick which action which can be frustrating if you want to move something but they are inside of 12” but hey ho very happy with IJ allegience overall so am not complaining :-)

That is true, that is the part that sucks, not rolling for it but having your action dictated.

1 hour ago, Banglesprout said:

Regarding the Mega-krusha & artifact hmm.. I think you guys have opened my eyes somewhat to the value of metal-ripper! Previously I'd just gone the straight-forward orcy thinking that daubing keeps my megaboss general and coolest model live, so can only be a good thing, and it affects the whole model, where as the weapons only affect part of it. I can definitely see metal-ripper being good if you're fighting something like that treeman though!

Dabbing may be the right answer, I dont know yet as it is such early days. I just worry that it doesn't boost your damage enough to clear enemies and you actually end up with more wounds on you in the end as a result - that would have been the case in this battle but maybe not against other foes. Certainly if you get blasted by 2 thundertusks for 12 mortal wounds you would wish you had the dab.

1 hour ago, Banglesprout said:

And yey for the Troll hag. I do love trolls generally, so it's cool to hear from you and @Sangfroid that she worked so well for you. Must admit I took a look at her but thought "why not just have a cheap mage, and then another unit of brutes or similar?" but perhaps I've underestimated her

I think this comes down to what the list needs. For me the biggest weaknesses were lack of rend -2, and lack of tanky resilience in combat without fear of battleshock (apart from boss) so she fit the bill well..

[Rock Lobster]

5 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Only issue I have with mighty destroyers is that you can’t pick which action which can be frustrating if you want to move something but they are inside of 12” but hey ho very happy with IJ allegience overall so am not complaining :-)

I had a little fun thought with this, if you are forced to charge with the cabbage, it might not be terrible as you can charge in and do the impact mortal wounds potentially against something low wounds and then kill the wounded target with troll hag vomit, freeing up the cabbage to charge again in the charge phase. It means you can clear a 6 to 8 wound target and charge again rather than a 4 wound target reliably.

2 hours ago, Banglesprout said:

Mighty Destroyers - I did wonder at one point if it might be a fun idea to get lots of cheap heroes (hello warchanters / goblin shamans) to try and maximise the chance of getting this, but decided it's too unreliable to base my hero choices around. One question occured to me regarding using it multiple times on a single unit: do you roll for all your heroes before moving a unit? So if a unit starts near two heroes who both get the result it can go 12"? Or do you roll for a hero, then make the units move, meaning if you wanted to use it on the same unit they'd have to use their first move to go to within 6" of the second hero.. like a bizarre relay race?

I think there is value in that, that is why the multiple war chanters work well, with a battalion you have a couple of guys that buff +1 to hit, +1 bravery for your units and 1/3 chance between the two to give an extra 6" move, very solid. To go for the multi-trigger, just choose the chanters first to trigger as they are less likely and then use on the cabbage or brutes , then either the back of the bosses base of last brute in the unit should still be 6" from general or other chanter to try again to catapult. With the cabbage if you trigger 2 he can potentially sail forward 24" with that plus his movement and then charge - good if you are facing Kairos hiding in the back expecting to summon friends and seemingly 'safe'

[Chris Tomlin]

On ‎28‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 10:50 PM, Megaboss Gorstag said:

Has anyone tried out an Orruk Warboss with Waaagh banner? The 16"  combat phase reroll  1's to wound seems mighty tasty.  

I think @Hypno may be able to share some insights as he used this at FHGT iirc.

On ‎06‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:59 AM, Skumbaagh said:

Are you 100% sure about the bubble? I have always played it like that, but read somewhere it wasnt like that but more like a chain with the explanation that it say "units ten inch from them". 

it is 100% a bubble  

@BunkhouseBuster and @Rock Lobster - Great reports and input here guys. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Hypno]

5 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

I think @Hypno may be able to share some insights as he used this at FHGT iirc.

 

the banner was really helpful espically combo'ed with a megaboss on foot and warchanter so that the brutes have very high hit and wound chances but its pretty much 280 points for reroll to hit and wound, yeah the ironjaws boss on foot can fight but hes not the greatest and banner boss is similar to a warchanter in melee, tbh dont think him or the ironjaws boss will be coming in the future but instead 5 brutes and second warchanter to buff both the cabbage and the brutes at the same time 

[Skumbaagh]

Just wanted to thank you guys for your replys. In the small tournaments i have played so far there are as many opinions about the rules as there are players and the guys you would think had the most knowledge are the ones teaching the most players to not play by the rules. Also people with less knowledge tend to not like mechanics that seemingly was not intended with the rules, such as pileing in in a way to get further in and smash something that would else be out of reach. I have done this with great success but with the result of opponents thinking its abusive. I suspect it would be similar to pile in after a charge with no enemies left alive. Sure I know that the rules is not the problem but the ignorance is in my local meta. Google is my friend thou and I have learned not to trust any one source. Always gotta find a second source for confirmation.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, battle reports and just participating.  Im checking out a couple of threads a couple of times every day, even thou im not writing very often, im trying to learn as much as possible!

[PlasticCraic]

On 10/6/2017 at 11:37 AM, Malakree said:

Give us a report afterwards !

As promised, (delayed) batrep on my latest game vs Khorne!

My opponent brought a new list, and we were playing Beerhammer on a Saturday afternoon / pm, so we got through one game in 6 hours (!) instead of the 3 games we’d been intending to.  Nice leisurely pace

I took the same army I’ve been using throughout GH17 (with one small tweak), which is:

 

MBMK – Ironclad, Armour of Gork

Warchanter – The bravery stick

WNS

 

10x Brutes

10x Ardboyz

6x GG

3x Spear Chukkas

Ironfist

 

The one change from my previous army being that I dropped the foot boss for an extra 3x GG, and sadly he wasn’t missed.  I was conscious of the low number of heroes for triggering Mighty Destroyers, but I’ve had so little luck with it so far (usually only triggering when I’m within 12” and therefore getting zero benefit), that as others have mentioned I felt like it wasn’t worth building a list around.

My opponent had an interesting battalion – the Goretide.  So he could zip his Might Lord of Khorne up to 8” in either hero phase and attack, then because he was within 3” of me, units nearby to him could also pile in and unleash a limited attack.  He put this combo to great use with his Skullreapers on more than one occasion!  The Mighty Lord was clearly the key piece here (other than the Banner in cover, which was hard to reach barely worth attacking on a 2+ save.  Seriously, the 3+ baseline save on that guy is so annoying!).

We rolled for scenario and got the new sideways Border War.  Pretty good all round mission, nothing too tricksy in there, so a good battleplan for testing out new(ish) armies.

My plan was to roll down one flank with the Brutes and MBMK, Smashin’ and Bashin’ along the way, and use my Ardboys and Gore Gruntas to hold up the other flank while my artillery deleted his Mighty Lord then had some fun.  He also set up strongly on the opposite flank (Mighty Lord plus a lot of Skull Reapers), so I was hoping to break through to his home objective quicker than he could get to mine.

First thing to say is that I recognise that my list has several holes in it, partially caused by the amount of points tied up in the Chukkas and Batallion…I just can’t let go of the battalion just yet.  Frankly I’m not a good enough player to consistently have the right units in the right places at the right times…I need that crutch!  I’m working towards CanCon (100 player AOS event, our biggest here in Australia, at the end of January) and hoping to play 50 games with this army by then, because I do still make mistakes and I need that stabiliser!

Anyway my hope with the Chukkas was that by having 3 instead of 2, I would smooth out the D3 damage bumps a little bit, and get more consistent damage output.  They have instead been consistently useless for me.  In my last game (also Khorne) I shot them at Slaughterpriests all game and did 3 damage IN TOTAL.  Statistically I should have been deleting one a turn, not chipping away less than a wound a turn, but I just couldn’t catch a break.  I was hoping this would be the game where the law of averages would kick back in my favour (Khorne should be a great matchup for them), but again they were an uber flop.  The first three turns I got 9 wounds through from my 18 shots (about par), but the Mighty Lord made 9 consecutive 5+ saves and they did ZERO damage.  Now that’s partially unlucky on my part (1 in 243 chance that he makes all of them), but even if a couple got through, I was a long way off killing him. 

I do like the feedback from some of the advanced players on here that they can be good support pieces (chipping off a couple of wounds so you can trigger On Da Rampage) so maybe I’ve not been using them right in expecting them to outright kill lower-wound heroes, but by turn 4 he was into my backline and they of course insta-died when he got to them.  Probably my last game with them for the time being – it’s almost a relief that they were SO bad, because it makes the decision easy to swap them out.  Step up, Troggoth Hag, it’s time for you and your breastststs to shine!

The keen eyed amongst you will notice that I mentioned Turn 4 before he got to my Chukkas on my home objective.  The good news is that I broke through to his objective on Turn 3!  So we basically swapped ends, but I got there sooner, and as we all know, an extra turn on the enemy’s home objective is hard to come back from in this one.  A Major Win for the Ladz!  Puts me on 3 wins and 3 losses so far under GH17, and I’m definitely still learning the ropes with Ironjawz, but loving every minute!

The star performers at breaking through his army were of course the 10x Brutes.  They were going nuts and deleting at least 1 unit a turn.  Smashin’ and Bashin’ was huge: on the first three turns, I triggered a string of 3, a string of 3 and a string of 2.  There were not many units left on either side by the end of Turn 3… 2x combat armies going at it, a proper bloodbath!  The other key piece to mention was the Warchanter, I did find that whoever had the blessing of his +1 was exponentially better than they were without it.  The MBMK in particular can see a big drop off in his output when unbuffed.  My current thoughts are that I need to find a way to get two in there – the Brutes and the MBMK need one each…no, they DESERVE one each!

The MBMK loadout was very effective and I will be running with it for the time being.  The big thing here is that Mystic Shield is a MUST HAVE, because the benefit is exponential in that combo, so even if I do start using the Troggoth Hag, I will either be using her mainly to Mystic the MBMK (wasting that sweet, sweet warscroll spell) or I will need to keep a Weirdnob Shaman in there purely for the Mystic (a Grot Shaman would put me over 400 allies points unfortunately).

I like the Bravery Stick (can’t remember its proper name, sorry!  Boss Skewer?).  As we all know, the difference between bravery 6 and bravery 7 for the Brutes is MASSIVE, so I felt that it liberated me to use the Mighty Waaagh!, which in turn was VERY beneficial.  This artefact is another reason to keep the battalion, this time a slightly more respectable one than “I’m too scared to drop it”!

Other than my moan about the Chukkas above, the other unit that needs to be looking over its shoulder is the Ardboyz.  They weren’t crazily tanky, didn’t put out a heap of damage in return, didn’t do anything much other than take a couple of rounds to die.  When I compare them to units available to other armies that cost the same like Tzangors, or very similar like 10x Blood Warriors, they just seem to give you so precious little for 180 points.  My current thinking is that 5x Brutes might be a better option and could slot straight in there, but I do have work to do on my army.  I’m trying to change 1 thing at a time and play at least 5 games in between, so I’ll run with them for now.

The final thing to come out of this is that I may well split the 6x GGs into 2x units of 3.  My plan with the 6 was to get the most out of a Smashin’ and Bashin’ chain, but if they are up against anything decent, even 6 of them won’t put out a surreal amount of pain.  2x 3 might be very welcome in the missions with 6x scenarios, to pressure multiple areas of the table simultaneously, so that’s probably where I’ll go.

Thanks for reading, and I’m definitely open to any feedback / suggestions!

[Nico]

To be fair the Troll Hag's spell will be out of range typically early on and so she can transition from Mystic Shield to Uber Nerf. Just don't let DoT steal that spell or it's curtains....

[Chris Tomlin]

12 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

Just wanted to thank you guys for your replys. In the small tournaments i have played so far there are as many opinions about the rules as there are players and the guys you would think had the most knowledge are the ones teaching the most players to not play by the rules. Also people with less knowledge tend to not like mechanics that seemingly was not intended with the rules, such as pileing in in a way to get further in and smash something that would else be out of reach. I have done this with great success but with the result of opponents thinking its abusive. I suspect it would be similar to pile in after a charge with no enemies left alive. Sure I know that the rules is not the problem but the ignorance is in my local meta. Google is my friend thou and I have learned not to trust any one source. Always gotta find a second source for confirmation.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, battle reports and just participating.  Im checking out a couple of threads a couple of times every day, even thou im not writing very often, im trying to learn as much as possible!

Good post man. Whilst I would certainly not suggest that everything you read on the internet is true, we do have a solid player base here with some very experienced players who can give you the facts. In turn this will hopefully help you to educate your own player group in time. Learning the nuances of those 4 pages and understanding how the game plays as opposed to dismissing it as abusive (because it may be different / not seem intuitive / whatever) will give you more tactical options and greater depth within your games.

It's great you can learn from reading, but please feel free to ask as many questions as you need answered. We are more than happy to help here  

@PlasticCraic - Sounds like a good game (though that may be to do with the beer!)...although your luck with those Spear Chukkas is dismal!  

I would certainly advise of the 2x3 Gruntas. They have proved invaluable in my games when it comes to objectives and can still perform their meat shield tasks as well when divided.

[Malakree]

@PlasticCraic Good job with the win dude. Nice to hear your thoughts on the army build.

Fortunately the 3 spear chukkas are 360 just like the Hag so it's a straight swap there with no need to drop the shaman. I've heard everyone else say she's a superstar and If I had time to build/paint her before my first big tourney I'd see about getting her in there.

One option instead of 10 Ardboyz --> 5 Brutes would be to go for 3 more Grunta's. Your report didn't say how you felt about them but that would free up 40 points for triumph and help with your mobility/positioning issues. A squad of 6 Grunta's is a pretty lethal objective seize on it's own and another potential target for the Frenzy of Violence. Plus it greatly increases THEIR chance of triggering Smashing and Bashing, chaining 10x Brutes --> 6x Grunta's is the rudest thing.

Lastly is that 2nd chanter you want, I have no idea how to get it into your list haha. If you really wanted to be a troll (because of the Hag....) you could drop the 10 Ardboyz for 2x Chanter + 20 points to triumph. That's going to leave you really low on the model count though with your units with them having just 16 models. That said those 16 models do post an impressive 60 wounds. 

[Fungrim]

Good morning Destruction-fans!

Had a bit of a hiatus from here for a few reasons this last week or so, primarily because of work/real life (etc etc), but also because of my fairly miserable performance at the Finals, I needed some time for a good old re-think…

First things first, the Finals were amazing, let it not be said that you can’t have fun losing (spoilers). I did, however, finish the weekend on just 1 Major Win, and 5 Major Losses… not inspiring.

Here’s the list I took (I went for bodies, punch, and durability):

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

Orruk Warchanter (80)

Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)

10 x Orruk Brutes (360)

5 x Orruk Brutes (180)

5 x Orruk Brutes (180)

5 x Orruk Brutes (180)

3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

20 x Gitmob Grots (100)

20 x Gitmob Grots (100)

Total: 2000

 

I actually quite liked the list, the Grots did what I hoped they’d do and more, the Shaman was a great, cheaper alternative to the Weirdnob, and the Gruntas put in some work. I didn't miss Ironfist particularly, although there were some crunch-moments where a run-and-charge would have been very helpful. The only mission I missed the smaller battalion-drop (and would have appreciated the 1st turn option) was Duality of Death, where I struggled to muscle off a bunch of Behemoths for several turns.

The Mawkrusha was by far and away the MVP, only died 3/6 (Ironclad), and earned me the vast majority of my fairly respectable KPs. The Brutes were a bit lack-lustre, the 10 did ok, the 3x5 not so well (although, as I’ll allude to, this was largely down to myself).

I won’t clog this up with extensive BatReps, just know, I had one game where I didn’t stand a chance, a few games that I lost right at the end of T5, and a few games that I just out-right screwed up in. I left WW a tad deflated (was hoping for at least 2-3 wins), but in hope that a new list and a bag-load of practice games would set me right.

Huge props to the other, far better performing Ironjawz armies there that weekend, I’m ashamed to say, I was  definitely not worthy enough to claim your mantle @Chris Tomlin 

I’ll be posting up a new list some time soon (that I’ve already bagged a convincing Major Win with) -  will probably be the list I’ll take to B&G in a few weeks.

[Malakree]

39 minutes ago, Fungrim said:

will probably be the list I’ll take to B&G in a few weeks.

Oh god, I'm so screwed haha. It's going to be my first major tourney and I won't even have an MK. I held at least a small hope that I'd be the only Ironjawz so I could totally blag it as "it was just a bunch of bad lists to face" but I guess now I'll have to own up to my own flaws. 

Never know, maybe the two of us will meet at the bottom of the tables and fight for last place !

[Fungrim]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Oh god, I'm so screwed haha. It's going to be my first major tourney and I won't even have an MK. I held at least a small hope that I'd be the only Ironjawz so I could totally blag it as "it was just a bunch of bad lists to face" but I guess now I'll have to own up to my own flaws. 

Never know, maybe the two of us will meet at the bottom of the tables and fight for last place !

Don't worry mate, honestly!

Firstly, as great as a Mawk is, there's absolutely scope for experimentation without one - I'm well behind on my TGA news, so not sure what you're looking at taking at the moment? Obviously without the speed and power of a Mawk, you'll be relying even more so on Brutes (for power) and Gruntas (for speed), so it's just a matter of using these units wisely and giving them the support from heroes that they need. Basically, don't play like me, and you'll be fine....

The best thing you can do with your first tourney is to just go in with no expectations and have a good time. Play the games as they are, and just have fun - you never know what might happen!

[Malakree]

47 minutes ago, Fungrim said:

Don't worry mate, honestly!

Firstly, as great as a Mawk is, there's absolutely scope for experimentation without one - I'm well behind on my TGA news, so not sure what you're looking at taking at the moment? Obviously without the speed and power of a Mawk, you'll be relying even more so on Brutes (for power) and Gruntas (for speed), so it's just a matter of using these units wisely and giving them the support from heroes that they need. Basically, don't play like me, and you'll be fine....

The best thing you can do with your first tourney is to just go in with no expectations and have a good time. Play the games as they are, and just have fun - you never know what might happen!

Oh I'm definitely going in with expectations, I expect I shall be utterly smashed and make a total fool of myself 

List I'm going to end up running will most likely be

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
20 x Gitmob Grots (100)
- Bows & Slashas 
- Allies

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 180 / 400

Purely because that's what models I have. I've toyed with trying to get another Weirdnob Warband, to replace the Gitmob stuff with 5 more Brutes. Or scrapping the unit of 5 Brutes to instead get either 10 more Ardboyz (again requiring a Weirdnob Warband) or bring the Gitmob unit up to 60. 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
60 x Gitmob Grots (270)
- Bows & Slashas 
- Allies

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 350 / 400

I think the 2nd list is probably my preferred list but I'm already having to paint 13 Ardboyz, 10 Grots, a Grot Shaman, Chanter, Weirdnob, 3 Gruntas and 5 Brutes. 

So it's either 5 brutes or 40 Grots to finish the list and I'm not sure which will be more painful....On the plus side I've done another 6 Ardboyz since yesterday (was 19 I needed to do) so I might have the time. Really not sure what to finish the list with though. The thing about the 15 Brutes is that if it comes down to the wire and I don't have the Gitmob stuff done I can split it into 3 units and take a Brutefist to finish my points off.

[Brakkus]

Hi, all. First time poster, as I'm pretty new to AoS after being a 40k enthusiast for almost 10 years, and wanted to say that I appreciate all the great info and feedback in this forum. Truly is refreshing coming from all the negative and juvenile forums that are 40k focused.

In saying that, I had my first game this past weekend under the GH17 against a mixed nurgle list and had a blast, even though I lost. We played the star strike battleplan and all the objectives ended up on the left hand side of the board. I ended up out of position pretty bad due to my deployment and, wanting to see my Krusha pound his units, didn't retreat from his plaguebearer blob when I should have.

My question is, how do most of deploy? I know that is a crucial aspect of the game and I'm sure I'll get better at recognizing things as I gain more experience, but looking for a little general guidance. For reference, my list was:

MBMK - ironclad, daubing of mork (the one where you ignore a wound on a 6)

Megaboss

Warchanter

Shaman

Brutes x10 - 2" weapons, boss w/klaw, 2 gore choppas

Brutes x5 - two weapons, boss w/klaw, 1 gore choppa

Ardboyz x10 - dual weapons, drum, banner

Gruntas x3

Gruntas x3

Ironfist

 

This was basically all the models I had put together at the time. Since then I've assembled a 2nd shaman and 2nd warchanter, added 10 more ardboyz w/dual weapons, 10 ardboyz w/shields and 10 ardboyz w/2-handed weapons/drum/banner.

I was very underwhelmed by the shaman. He didn't do a whole lot and I feel like he's a bit overcosted for his abilities. The foot boss was slow but did some decent damage when he reached combat. I really enjoyed the +1 to hit from the warchanter and the gore gruntas were great. The Krusha and 5 brutes were all stars, while the 10 brutes were lackluster, mainly because I flubbed my rolls with them all game. They did a combined 5 wounds over 6 rounds of combat to the Glottkin.

Like I said, I feel like I deployed pretty bad and my dice seemed to abandon me, but had a great time. Any advice or suggestions/thoughts are welcome. Thanks and I look forward to contributing what I can here at TGA

[Malakree]

@Brakkus The deployment thing really is practice. Working out what your aim is in the game and then going with a deployment that fits that style.

The warchanter is one of the key models for Ironjawz, he's got good survivability and his +1 to hit is massive on all our units. Most people are leaning towards having 2 in their list right now because of how good he is. As a quick example if you +1 to hit then you're hitting on 2s and rerolling misses against the glottkin, at which point you should just eat him. Remember that you reroll failed hits if the target has a wounds characteristic of 4+.

I agree on the Weirdnob being either overpriced or slightly to weak, hopefully he will be bumped up to 140 points and given the ability to cast 2 spells per turn as at the moment he is essentially just an expensive Mystic Shield output. I'd recommend looking at what allies you can add into your list because, as you noted, our wizard option is pretty mediocre and some of the potential allies have amazing options. My personal favourites for the wizard slot are either a Wurrgog Prophet and a Wardokk or a Troggoth Hag. Both have their advantages and are easily better than the Weirdnob.

[Brakkus]

@Malakree Thank you for the feedback. While I admit that I forgot quite a few things during the game, re-rolling against models with wounds characteristic of 4+ with brutes was not one of them. My dice rolling against the Glottkin was so abysmal that I wanted to throw them away, because I did give them the +1 from the Warchanter...twice! But, hopefully, my dice don't abandon me like that ever again. I figured that learning about deployment and how to properly/most effectively do it will come with practice. I basically tried to set up my army as symmetrically as possible with the Krusha in the middle and then advance to mid-field without overexposing myself until the objectives started to drop. Once that happened, I just couldn't get to them fast enough and was bogged down while my opponent shifted towards them. Have to give my opponent credit, he did a great job shielding me from them while I just couldn't chew through him fast enough. I always tend to learn more in defeat than in victory, so I'll take what I can and move on.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Brakkus said:

@Malakree Thank you for the feedback. While I admit that I forgot quite a few things during the game, re-rolling against models with wounds characteristic of 4+ with brutes was not one of them. My dice rolling against the Glottkin was so abysmal that I wanted to throw them away, because I did give them the +1 from the Warchanter...twice! But, hopefully, my dice don't abandon me like that ever again. I figured that learning about deployment and how to properly/most effectively do it will come with practice. I basically tried to set up my army as symmetrically as possible with the Krusha in the middle and then advance to mid-field without overexposing myself until the objectives started to drop. Once that happened, I just couldn't get to them fast enough and was bogged down while my opponent shifted towards them. Have to give my opponent credit, he did a great job shielding me from them while I just couldn't chew through him fast enough. I always tend to learn more in defeat than in victory, so I'll take what I can and move on.

One thing I would suggest is studying ancient battles and strategies. Ironjawz plays very much like an Ancient Era army and can perform the strategies well. Two of the obvious ones to start with are Alexander the Great and Hannibal Barca.

[Xelotath]

@Brakkus I like your list, it's almost exactly the same as my go to although IIRC I swapped the foot boss for an extra unit of Brutes. I'm quite inexperienced with Ironjawz myself, however I've found playing Path to Glory and the like a great way to learn how to get the most out of units individually. 

The weirdnob is over costed I feel. So I'm looking at a re-jigged list with two chanters, no Ardboyz or ironfist with a Troll Hag. 

From what I've read on these forums though, Ironjawz players seem to be among the most enthusiatic and helpful players I've seen. So if you ever need any help you're in good hands. Maybe one day we will be the masters guiding the newbies ?

[Primique]

A 2k list that I think will be fun and I'm wanting to try!

Mawkrusha

Mawkrusha

Warchanter

Weirdnob

 

10 Jagged Gore Hacka Brutes

5 Brute Choppa Brutes

5 Brute Choppa Brutes

Ironfist < Possibly replace with Gore Gruntas?

 

 

 

 

[Drofnum]

Hey all i'm looking to do a 2v2 tournament with a friend who is running Kharadron.  Not sure what a good list would be now for 1k paired up with a lot of shooting. He's taking mostly company and balloon guys.

What I have at my disposal:

1 mawkrusha

2 megabosses

1 Weirdnob

1 Warchanter

10 brutes

20 Ardboyz

3 gore gruntas

1 Aleguzzler

 

I was thinking of running something like this, but I dont know if the mobility would kill me.  Especially with KO also being low on the movement front.  Would a Maw Krusha list be better?

 

Allegiance: Destruction

Orruk Megaboss (140)

Orruk Megaboss (140)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Orruk Warchanter (80)

10 x Orruk Brutes (360)

3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Total: 980 / 1000

[Malakree]

So as is tradition, with blood and glory looming ever closer, I'm seriously doubting my list choices. As such I'm faced with a question.

Can a greenskinz warboss both carry a great waaagh! Banner AND be mounted on a boar at the same time. Having played earlier vs a khorne bloodbound along with my earlier battles against clan pestilence I've really come to appreciate the value of rerolling failed attacks and wounds.

Since ironjawz all wound on 3s reroll 1s is pretty solid even at 140 points.

Ending up with something like

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner 
- Allies
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- 15x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 15x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
20 x Gitmob Grots (100)
- Bows & Slashas 
- Allies

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 400 / 400
 

[sporadicMike]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Can a greenskinz warboss both carry a great waaagh! Banner AND be mounted on a boar at the same time.

I don't see why not.  It's how i built mine.