GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

What did you want to know? Im guessing the part of his CA wording about the 'charge phase'

Aye I asked a question regarding the rules interaction of his CA and the Brutefist special, if the two of them interact properly it makes the brutefist WAY more usable and 5x5 brutes a potential with him.

Have the brutes get a charge on the stupid 2+ stormcast lord and pull 5d3 mortal wounds on him!

[Ollie Grimwood]

The brutefist charge takes place in the Hero Phase, Gordrakk's ability takes effect in the next charge phase after it's used. I don't think we're going to have any luck on them interacting it would be great if they did though (and the Gore Grunta charge triggering simply on a charge roll of 8)

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

The brutefist charge takes place in the Hero Phase, Gordrakk's ability takes effect in the next charge phase after it's used. I don't think we're going to have any luck on them interacting it would be great if they did though (and the Gore Grunta charge triggering simply on a charge roll of 8)

The question is because of the wording of the two abilities. Specifically the Brutefist charge says

Quote

Can make a charge move as if it were the charge phase.

Implying that for the charge they act as though it IS the charge phase.

Quote

If the charge is successful...

This actually has no requirements on phase, only that the charge made by this ability is successful.

Gordrakk CA

Quote

In the following Charge Phase...

Obvious for this one.

Hence Gordrakk says "In the next charge phase" and the brute phase says "Act as though it is the charge phase". Hence his ability should affect the Brutefist charge. Thus my asking an Errata of GW for it because nobody is going to let us do it unless there is an errata.

[Lysandestolpe]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

The question is because of the wording of the two abilities. Specifically the Brutefist charge says

Implying that for the charge they act as though it IS the charge phase.

This actually has no requirements on phase, only that the charge made by this ability is successful.

Gordrakk CA

Obvious for this one.

Hence Gordrakk says "In the next charge phase" and the brute phase says "Act as though it is the charge phase". Hence his ability should affect the Brutefist charge. Thus my asking an Errata of GW for it because nobody is going to let us do it unless there is an errata.

Hmmm, I am not fully convinced on this one. I would love it to be that way as it would give more reason to use both that battalion as well as Gordrakk. But i think the key thing is that the move is happening in the same manner as a charge move would happen in the charge phase, not that the hero phase becomes as if it was a charge phase for those particular brute units. So its very sticky here. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

Nope clearly states "as if it were the charge phase"  still the hero phase.   There's no implication it becomes the charge phase.  Gordrakk's ability takes place in the charge phase not the hero phase.  No interaction between the two. 

Though it would be much better if the brutefist ability did take place in the charge phase regardless of Gordrakk's ability.  It your question got that altered we'd really have something usful. 

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeh @Ollie Grimwood is right, it definitely doesn't work unfortunately  

[Malakree]

It's why I asked for an errata on it. If they rule in our favour it opens up a whole new army building option and if they rule against we know for sure, litterally a nothing to lose scenario.

Best case scenario they look at it and say "that would be awesome yes we'll allow it! "

[Chris Tomlin]

21 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It's why I asked for an errata on it. If they rule in our favour it opens up a whole new army building option and if they rule against we know for sure, litterally a nothing to lose scenario.

Best case scenario they look at it and say "that would be awesome yes we'll allow it! "

Whilst we're wishlisting, lets get them to errata that Gore-grunta Charge as well!  

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Whilst we're wishlisting, lets get them to errata that Gore-grunta Charge as well!  

To be fair that needs doing aswell. In a lot of ways ironjawz feel like an early army designed before some of the later cleaner ones.

[sporadicMike]

On a 6+ Brutes either deal a mortal wound or they auto wound.  I'd be ok of it was just a single weapon profile. Maybe the boss choppa. 

[Malakree]

The other inconsistencies I've felt need to be fixed for IJ are the Frenzy of Violence falling off after one combat phase, compared to say the Plague Priest Prayer which just lets them reroll failed wounds until their next hero phase (???) and a MB who Waaagh! should roll for the extra attacks every combat phase until your next hero phase.

It seems utterly insane to me that the IJ abilities are next combat phase only while Clan Pestilence has "Until your next Hero Phase" on abilities which are equivalent or stronger in power".

[Nico]

There is an errata - phase dependent abilities do not work in deemed phases - e.g. You don't get +1 to hit in the shooting phase buffs working when you shoot as if it were the shooting phase in the hero phase.

 

[BunkhouseBuster]

45 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It seems utterly insane to me that the IJ abilities are next combat phase only while Clan Pestilence has "Until your next Hero Phase" on abilities which are equivalent or stronger in power".

I have wondered about this too.  I didn't remember it for my first few games of Ironjawz, but now I'm remembering it and helping other Ironjawz to remember it.  It is odd that it only applies to the Ironjawz's own Hero Phase when so many other armies's abilities work until "the next Hero Phase".

[BunkhouseBuster]

Also, what does everyone think of the Gore-Fist in the new GH2017?  Now that we lost the old Destruction ability and the d6 inches of bonus speed that went with it, how do we feel about putting our models so far across the field on the first turn turn?  It's not an equal trade off, obviously, but it's still a tool that Ironjawz have over many other armies.

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Also, what does everyone think of the Gore-Fist in the new GH2017?  Now that we lost the old Destruction ability and the d6 inches of bonus speed that went with it, how do we feel about putting our models so far across the field on the first turn turn?  It's not an equal trade off, obviously, but it's still a tool that Ironjawz have over many other armies.

I think if you are running a pure GG+MK army it can work, you just get in their face straight up and hurt them.

[Ollie Grimwood]

9 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Also, what does everyone think of the Gore-Fist in the new GH2017?  Now that we lost the old Destruction ability and the d6 inches of bonus speed that went with it, how do we feel about putting our models so far across the field on the first turn turn?  It's not an equal trade off, obviously, but it's still a tool that Ironjawz have over many other armies.

It would be interesting to see how it works going all in with it. Combine it with Gordrakk to increase the chances of the 8in charge. You'll certainly be alpha striking hard.  It would be painting all the Gore-Gruntas that would prevent  me from doing to be honest (time would be the issue rather than enjoyment). Of course as 7 is the most likely outcome on 2D6 Eager for battle is a very nice boost for the Gruntas. 

[Lysandestolpe]

14 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Also, what does everyone think of the Gore-Fist in the new GH2017?  Now that we lost the old Destruction ability and the d6 inches of bonus speed that went with it, how do we feel about putting our models so far across the field on the first turn turn?  It's not an equal trade off, obviously, but it's still a tool that Ironjawz have over many other armies.

Its hella cool if combined with gordrakk for a first turn charge. Its sad tho that the output of damage from gruntas never seem to work well for me. So whatever is on the other side of the field better hit less well than them, unless you have one big unit that with gordrakks help get their 8 inch charge buff, a warchanter that gets them buffed up. That is an insane amount of attacks and damage in the end. But after that, your just standing with a bit underwealming ardboyz on lazy fat pigs...  

 

im keen to try it tho, if i can get another 6 gruntas. 

[yarrickson]

21 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

Its hella cool if combined with gordrakk for a first turn charge. Its sad tho that the output of damage from gruntas never seem to work well for me. So whatever is on the other side of the field better hit less well than them, unless you have one big unit that with gordrakks help get their 8 inch charge buff, a warchanter that gets them buffed up. That is an insane amount of attacks and damage in the end. But after that, your just standing with a bit underwealming ardboyz on lazy fat pigs...  

 

im keen to try it tho, if i can get another 6 gruntas. 

Is the damage output off of Gordrakk'd gruntas not now less than pre GH17 thanks to that bit about command abilities not affecting mounts or am I misunderstanding that one? (ie the gruntas themselves don't get +2 attacks anymore) 

[Ollie Grimwood]

It was FAQ'd only command traits and artefacts don't effect mounts 

[yarrickson]

Just now, Ollie Grimwood said:

It was FAQ'd only command traits and artefacts are effected by it now 

Good stuff!

[Screamer]

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Gorefist (220)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
One hit Wonder

First turn will hurt like hell. Second turn... not so much

[Malakree]

Gotta be honest I think we prefer more big units now than lots of small ones unless you have a damn good reason.

I'd be looking at going 9/6/6 on the goregrunta units.

You're more likely to trigger smashing and bashing while the unit as a whole just hits that much harder. Given the 24" of movement and 3d6"+1 charge range the odds of you being able to get all 6/9 in combat with something is quite high even if it's across multiple units. Plus the Gorefist is much easier to setup because you need all the UNIT's not all the Models in 10" of the Big Boss. Put him in a 6 in the centre and you can easily get the others on either side, if you have 5 small units they will instead be setup in a blob and you have to manoeuvre out from behind other units.

There is a risk you will fail the Charge on the bigger units but in for a penny in for a pound. Your minimum charge range is 4" so the odds of a failed charge are low.

[BunkhouseBuster]

1 hour ago, Screamer said:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Gorefist (220)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
One hit Wonder

First turn will hurt like hell. Second turn... not so much

 

That looks fun!  I would have to buy a whole lot more Start Collecting boxes to get to that point though.  But it would certainly be fun to try sometime!

25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Gotta be honest I think we prefer more big units now than lots of small ones unless you have a damn good reason.

I'd be looking at going 9/6/6 on the goregrunta units.

You're more likely to trigger smashing and bashing while the unit as a whole just hits that much harder. Given the 24" of movement and 3d6"+1 charge range the odds of you being able to get all 6/9 in combat with something is quite high even if it's across multiple units. Plus the Gorefist is much easier to setup because you need all the UNIT's not all the Models in 10" of the Big Boss. Put him in a 6 in the centre and you can easily get the others on either side, if you have 5 small units they will instead be setup in a blob and you have to manoeuvre out from behind other units.

There is a risk you will fail the Charge on the bigger units but in for a penny in for a pound. Your minimum charge range is 4" so the odds of a failed charge are low.

Especially with using Gordrakk over a Megaboss on Mar-krusha.  The reason to take more, smaller units in an Ironjawz army is because you plan on getting mileage out of the Waaagh! and Mighty Waaagh! Command Abilities.  If you aren't focusing on them, then putting them together makes more sense for the reasons you mentioned.

[Screamer]

Well, though I agree bigger units are generally better, I also think more units gives bettet manouverability and boardcontrol.

With only 3 big units it's very difficult to even think about leaving one behind to capture an objective. 

And the big blob in the middle, well you cover 20" + the width of a six-pig unit. Should be enough room, especially since you don't want to get too close to the opponent. 15"+9"+8" is 32" wiggle-room. 

 

Three pigs deal 7W at-1rend and 9W without rend. So about 8 wounds after 4+save. Not enough against big units, and not enough to trigger Smashin and bashin. But enough for support units/heroes/scoring units with bad save.

And leave heroes and 3+save to Gordrak! 

But, alas, to buy and paint all those pigs...

[Malakree]

26 minutes ago, Screamer said:

Well, though I agree bigger units are generally better, I also think more units gives bettet manouverability and boardcontrol.

With only 3 big units it's very difficult to even think about leaving one behind to capture an objective. 

And the big blob in the middle, well you cover 20" + the width of a six-pig unit. Should be enough room, especially since you don't want to get too close to the opponent. 15"+9"+8" is 32" wiggle-room. 

 

Three pigs deal 7W at-1rend and 9W without rend. So about 8 wounds after 4+save. Not enough against big units, and not enough to trigger Smashin and bashin. But enough for support units/heroes/scoring units with bad save.

And leave heroes and 3+save to Gordrak! 

But, alas, to buy and paint all those pigs...

This list is not going for objectives, you aren't after spliting around the board. You want to break the opponent Turn 1 then use that advantage to win the game.