GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Lysandestolpe]

@Megaboss Gorstag

I think your biggest issue is speed. I agree that Chris that the two mega bosses, considering their aura will be points not so well spent. I would drop the two bosses and try fit ironfist and a IJ weirdnob or warchanter into your list. Should be about 280 points which at the worst. 

If you have the attitude that everyone plays ironfist and I want to be different, I get you there. In that case I'd try go for Gorefist, especially since you have enough gruntas, with the +1 charge you statistically have a chance of getting that 8 inch charge as well. To spice things up you can toss in Gordrakk for. Command trait boost: 3 dice charge and + two attacks to all melee weapons of all units in the gorefist batallion. Something to consider.  

[Sangfroid]

Here is my current FHGT list:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha, ironclad, the boss skewer

Troggoth Hag

10 Brutes (Jagged Hackas) 

5 Brutes (Choppas)

5 Brutes (Choppas)

3 Goregruntas (Choppas) 

3 Goregruntas (Choppas) 

=1820

I'm torn on the last piece of the puzzle, 

Ironfist, Brutefist, 5 more Brutes, 2x warchanters, Megaboss on foot, or 5 more brutes to one of the existing units (so a 15 or a second 10) 

Spoiler

id even consider dropping the Hag totally for shaman, chanter, Ironfist and a Megaboss (with the boss skewer then Mawkrusha gets meatrippa) but one of my warchiefs buddies (Carl smith of Fyreslayers fame) is currently painting up a troggoth hag we bought and has flatly told me he will not be happy if I decide not to take her after All ?

 

[Megaboss Gorstag]

You guys have my brain jumping this morning! 

What about MB on MK

weird nob, Warchanter/ Grot shaman 

2 X Gruntas 

5 x 5 Brutes

Iron fist Battalion 

All the brutes in the Iron fist.  With boss skewer on the chanter or Wierd nob,  and a gold tooth on the MK.  Plenty of units to Waaagh with.  Is this just a flawed thought?  It seems in most of my losses if I just had one more unit over yonder to claim an objective it would make so much of a difference.  No longer NEEDING to lump into a big  unit for InsP or Bellowing Tyrant buff all our new found Bravery manipulation and better potential for Waaaghs make the smaller units seem alot more appealing. 

 

Probably should just mush them together into bigger units to and run beastial Charisma instead ?

[Sig]

46 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

Here is my current FHGT list:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha, ironclad, the boss skewer

Troggoth Hag

10 Brutes (Jagged Hackas) 

5 Brutes (Choppas)

5 Brutes (Choppas)

3 Goregruntas (Choppas) 

3 Goregruntas (Choppas) 

=1820

I'm torn on the last piece of the puzzle, 

Ironfist, Brutefist, 5 more Brutes, 2x warchanters, Megaboss on foot, or 5 more brutes to one of the existing units (so a 15 or a second 10) 

  Hide contents

id even consider dropping the Hag totally for shaman, chanter, Ironfist and a Megaboss (with the boss skewer then Mawkrusha gets meatrippa) but one of my warchiefs buddies (Carl smith of Fyreslayers fame) is currently painting up a troggoth hag we bought and has flatly told me he will not be happy if I decide not to take her after All ?

 

Hello SangFroid,

really need your feedback on the Hag.

it's a unit i'm looking for, but not sure about his utility in comparison with Grot Rock lobberx3 or  30 orruks arrowboys bubbling my Shaman  on Balewind vortex, or 3 units of spear chukka. IJ are lacking sniping units me seems.

what are ur opiniond aboutt that. Keeping in mind the MSU orientation of the army for the rest of the units.

[Sangfroid]

29 minutes ago, Megaboss Gorstag said:

You guys have my brain jumping this morning! 

What about MB on MK

weird nob, Warchanter/ Grot shaman 

2 X Gruntas 

5 x 5 Brutes

Iron fist Battalion 

All the brutes in the Iron fist.  With boss skewer on the chanter or Wierd nob,  and a gold tooth on the MK.  Plenty of units to Waaagh with.  Is this just a flawed thought?  It seems in most of my losses if I just had one more unit over yonder to claim an objective it would make so much of a difference.  No longer NEEDING to lump into a big  unit for InsP or Bellowing Tyrant buff all our new found Bravery manipulation and better potential for Waaaghs make the smaller units seem alot more appealing. 

 

Probably should just mush them together into bigger units to and run beastial Charisma instead ?

Similar to a lot of lists I've crafted myself (but not had time to try out yet :-) 

id suggest either all units in an Ironfist (so pigs as a 6 and one brutes as a 10 or 2x10 brutes 

or if you have the points Brutefist for the 5 brute units it's stronger an more versatile that first appears, for example you charge in hero phase with 2 units do 2xd3 mortal wounds then retreat with one unit in the movement phase to,where you want to be to chaff up or score objectives effectively making your movement 4" +2d6 +1, +d6 

[Sangfroid]

32 minutes ago, Sig said:

Hello SangFroid,

really need your feedback on the Hag.

it's a unit i'm looking for, but not sure about his utility in comparison with Grot Rock lobberx3 or  30 orruks arrowboys bubbling my Shaman  on Balewind vortex, or 3 units of spear chukka. IJ are lacking sniping units me seems.

what are ur opiniond aboutt that. Keeping in mind the MSU orientation of the army for the rest of the units.

Only used her once, very tanky Great shooting (if what only 18" range) and has magic so I'm enjoying it but as I've mentioned elsewhere today it's not auto include 

[Malakithe]

Okay new list...looks kinda boring though

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2000/2000
 

[Megaboss Gorstag]

Is double Maw-krusha a thing? Just picked up another 2nd hand. Or is that too much of a points sink. 

[Lysandestolpe]

5 hours ago, Megaboss Gorstag said:

Is double Maw-krusha a thing? Just picked up another 2nd hand. Or is that too much of a points sink. 

 Not at all, you lose some meat and can only cast one mystic shield, but two MK are really fast and really scary. Just make sure you think before you play safe or aggressive. You want them to crash into things on your term. So keep the brutes in front and be prepared to take som heavy shooting on your non general MK.

[Fungrim]

I'm still torn between a Hag and an Idol.

Toss-up between the more versatile wizard who can heal and debuff, and the smashy-as-hell intimidation piece that buffs bravery.

This may become a poll at some point...

 

 

[Sangfroid]

4 minutes ago, Fungrim said:

I'm still torn between a Hag and an Idol.

Toss-up between the more versatile wizard who can heal and debuff, and the smashy-as-hell intimidation piece that buffs bravery.

This may become a poll at some point...

 

 

Simple solution get both and try them both out ;-)

[Fungrim]

21 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

Simple solution get both and try them both out ;-)

That's.... awful advice....

 

I love it.

[Southern trolls]

So after several weeks of painting new models and loads of new house projects, I finally managed to get 2 games in this week! I have attached a copy of my list, it's not fully optimized and this was just round one of testing for a tournament list.  I took 20 Ardz mainly because I only had 20 painted, working on the next 10 this weekend. I played both games against Melee heavy kkhorne mortals &  mixed daemon/mortal khorne game two with a touch more shooting. I will just extrapolate on the highlights/lowlights.

Game 1 was scorched earth, he ran gore pilgrim/Runebringer as he wanted to try out some new lists. I was a 6 drop so I lost priority which I am used to so I setup to expect to go first, which I did. I also had in my deployment cause I lost side selection two massive 12"+ pieces of scenery that were mystical... I heard a whisper from gorka/morka telling me to be cunning and setup around one of the pieces, so I did. 5 rolls and not a single befuddlement.   I managed to get off our new mighty destroyers on the ardz in the front who were dbl warchanted, with the waaagh, but failed the mystical shield on them. this was huge because I got double turned and they proceeded to chew threw most of the army that was thrown at them 40+ reavers and 10 chaos warriors. I have since found a new respect to the Ardz and seriously love them now when they are buffed. I can't wait to run 30! I managed to smash and bash 3 times in  both turn 2 phases. MSU is not good against Ironjawz, we love to smash and bash those silly 10 man units! The Hag was incredibly useful in shooting over the Ardz at the annoying blood warriors. Hot dice on my shooting phase resulted in 5 warriors killed by vomit ? in a single go. Never got her spell off this game sadly, his auto-unbind is pesky to deal with on that. I managed to pretty much hold the middle ground until turn three where I basically chewed through his army and moved up with my remaining few brutes and ardboyz. I claimed the major but it was a slugfest non the least. 

Game 2 was knife to the heart, and I was a little hesitant to play this mission. I absolutely loathed this mission in the original handbook thanks to unlucky matchups in all of my tournaments that brought me against sylvaneth. Luckily I  was riding a high from gorka/ morka whispering in my ear some cunning strategies I said ere we go and went to setup. Again I was out deployed but I setup at the front of the line egging him to take first turn, he had a decent chance with good rolls to get in turn one with a few units. Alas he gave me first turn, which we later discussed might have been a mistake. I sent my 20man unit of Ardz fully buffed this time with dbl chanted, mystic shield, and waagh into his front line of 30 blood warriors with gore fists. 5 man brute and 10 man brute all failed to get in so I was a sitting duck for the double with my Ard Boy not a exciting proposition to face. I managed to kill 7 or 8 of his warriors without him having the banner planted, was feeling good about a failed battleshock and BOOM he rolls a 1 and is fine  I lost 5 ardboyz to his mortal wound plinks and no respite... Wowza, they did more return damage over the course of the game than their actual combat phase lolz, this was aided by his somehow horrendous dice rolls in the combat phase all game. I won priority, BUT..... I gave it to him because I knew I had to bank on the turn 3 double turn for a cheeky win, knowing this didn't help the fact he had a soul grinder and BToiR less than 10" away so I felt pretty sad I was about to loose that whole ardboyz line. Anyhow he failed to get the soul grinder in and managed to only get one swing through on the BToiR, talk about luck going my way. I did have 10 mortal wounds delt from 2 blood boils (why do those not have a rule of one, I can't even unbind them lol) on my ardboyz so that was not exciting. All in all I was left with about 6 arbboyz I memory serves. I was still buffed up from the previous turn and managed to plink off 5 wounds on the BToiR and killed a warrior or two. I proceeded next turn to get my hags spell off (woohoo) on the warriors, charge in the 5brutes into the BToiR and the 10 into MORE warriors ugh. The hag shot the warriors and took a few off then went into combat as well. Killed the BToiR and then mauled  through the warriors leaving one or two there to tie me up turn three   I got the turn three double turn but honestly probably should have given it away hindsite. I was worried about him retreating the soulgrinder toward the objective so I took it though. At this point I was pushing into his 20 or 30 man reavers that were guarding the objective, but I lost 2 brutes to deadly and another few in the proceeding no respite phase. I had 3 in one unit and 5 or 6 in the 10 man, who were unfortunately tied up on 1 blood warrior. I opted to shoot the soul grinder with puke, did 5 or 6 damage  (loving this short range burst damage she provides). I had lost all the ardboyz so it's up to the brutes I felt. Through the next two turns he managed to finally chew through the hag, she healed like 12 wounds that game ha! I chewed through the reavers just in time to get the major on turn 5. This was in part because of a pile in that brought my megaboss in inadvertently, was pretty late so I don't fault him on that. All in all the mvps of both games were the Ardboyz, and of course the brutes and in 3rd place the hag. I will take out the hag next few games in place of something  similar to what @Sangfroid has mentioned above. I will say though, she was the biggest headache for my opponent and he had to deal with her because of the presence she presented with the spell (awesome awesome if it goes off) and the spikey ranged she has on close heroes.  If I do get rid of her then I feel I really will need to the upgrade the mega boss with the maw crusha for duality then.  Big losers were the mega boss, a measly 1 round of combat in 2 games (only good for waaagh and 4+ mighty destroyers move" and  the 3 pigs. Although the pigs did their job well in just being tar pits, they to me are just not punchy and I couldn't really ever grab an objective with just three since both missions required me to outnumber and well 3 pigs are never gonna outnumber anything really except heroes. But, they did what I wanted them to do and that's flank and spank. The shaman is another thing I was considering to replace with a moonclan shaman pending allies points allow. I never used the shaman for anything other than mystic shield, so he is a bit expensive for that IMO if you can have access to 80 unused alliance points. Sorry for the long post. 

[Sangfroid]

@Southern trolls some great stories there, loving the troggoth hag myself but also glad she isn't so overpowered that it's a auto included every game.  Having just been away at BLACKOUT with 30 Ardboyz I can confirm you will like 30 better than 20 ;-)

however..... if I'm reading your report correctly then I am sorry to be bearer of bad news! Steel your green Heart, the frenzy of violence ability from from the Warchanter only buffs our units for the next (I.e our) combat phase  and does not persist across to the opponents turn, even worse this is the same for the Waaagh and Mighty Waaaagh too (I.e only works in our turn)

its frustrating as it would and maybe should do that but sadly does not. I like to think it's because GW hates ironjawz (must be the case right! Else we would have a Megaboss on Goregrunta ?) 

Its one of the principle  reasons Ironjawz are so geared up to benefit from a double turn, 

buff up, bash some face, buff up again Smash some face, laugh at whatever is left alive. 

[Southern trolls]

1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

@Southern trolls some great stories there, loving the troggoth hag myself but also glad she isn't so overpowered that it's a auto included every game.  Having just been away at BLACKOUT with 30 Ardboyz I can confirm you will like 30 better than 20 ;-)

however..... if I'm reading your report correctly then I am sorry to be bearer of bad news! Steel your green Heart, the frenzy of violence ability from from the Warchanter only buffs our units for the next (I.e our) combat phase  and does not persist across to the opponents turn, even worse this is the same for the Waaagh and Mighty Waaaagh too (I.e only works in our turn)

its frustrating as it would and maybe should do that but sadly does not. I like to think it's because GW hates ironjawz (must be the case right! Else we would have a Megaboss on Goregrunta ?) 

Its one of the principle  reasons Ironjawz are so geared up to benefit from a double turn, 

buff up, bash some face, buff up again Smash some face, laugh at whatever is left alive. 

Loved listening to Chris's podcast about blackout and I throughly believe you or Chris will represent the IJ'z well at FHGT! You're so right on the command ability ( in my defense first time using lol ) and the chanter buff! I need to pay attention to the proper wording apparently and will let my mate know I cheated him! 

 

One can can dream of an awesome Megaboss on grunta or studly brute's holding mighty X-Bows! 

[Spiky Norman]

6 hours ago, Fungrim said:

I'm still torn between a Hag and an Idol.

Toss-up between the more versatile wizard who can heal and debuff, and the smashy-as-hell intimidation piece that buffs bravery.

This may become a poll at some point...

 

 

Are your thoughts to roll with both an Idol and a Maw-krusha? Or just one of the two?

 

I was considering something like this, but maybe it's simply too "elite"

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Rockeye
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- 2x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
Rogue Idol (400)
Ironfist (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

 

[Fungrim]

1 hour ago, Spiky Norman said:

Are your thoughts to roll with both an Idol and a Maw-krusha? Or just one of the two?

 

I was considering something like this, but maybe it's simply too "elite"

 

That's pretty much the exact list I was looking at. It'd take a lot for me to drop the Krusha to be honest, both because I love it, and because I think it's crucial to our army.

I like the idea of having two big threats that split the opponents fire, so Mawk + Idol/Hag is ideal. It does make the army elite, and restrict your body count, but I think that's OK if we're heading towards MSU Ironjawz.

I'd probably slip 10 Ardboys in there for this reason. so:

 

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Rogue Idol (400)
Ironfist (160)

2000

 

Or

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Troggoth Hag (360)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Ironfist (160)

1980 

 

Again, all theory. This is all post-trip to Warhammer World where I'll undoubtedly get lured in by the resin...

[Skumbaagh]

Hi! I need you guyses opinion on a list. Im going to a 1500 point tournament and consider one of the bellow:

- MB on MK

- Weirdnob 

- 6 gore gruntas 

- 10 ardboyz

- 10 ardboyz

- 2 spear chukkas 

1460p

NO battalion. The gore gruntas should keep up with the MK and screen it. I feel a bit short on smashing power thou.. 

So the alternative could be.. 

- MB on MK 

- Weirdnob 

- 10 brutes 

- 3 gore gruntas 

- 10 ardboyz 

- 2 spear chukkas 

NO battalion 

1500p

The brutes are supposed to screen the MK. Is 6 inch move from Rampaging destroyers on a 4+ enough for the brutes to keep up with the MK?

 What so you guys feel about the lists? 

 

[Lysandestolpe]

4 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

Hi! I need you guyses opinion on a list. Im going to a 1500 point tournament and consider one of the bellow:

- MB on MK

- Weirdnob 

- 6 gore gruntas 

- 10 ardboyz

- 10 ardboyz

- 2 spear chukkas 

1460p

NO battalion. The gore gruntas should keep up with the MK and screen it. I feel a bit short on smashing power thou.. 

So the alternative could be.. 

- MB on MK 

- Weirdnob 

- 10 brutes 

- 3 gore gruntas 

- 10 ardboyz 

- 2 spear chukkas 

NO battalion 

1500p

The brutes are supposed to screen the MK. Is 6 inch move from Rampaging destroyers on a 4+ enough for the brutes to keep up with the MK?

 What so you guys feel about the lists? 

 

I mean, its 50% chance from MK and 1/6 from the weirdnob. Nothing really you can count on and you should plan on NOT getting it, and when you do, it's a nice bonus. 

But with the spearchukka support it may be OK with the slower moving brutes. You may simply have to run then first and perpahs second round to get up on the field. And either plan on locking things in combat long enough for them to smash in or simply prepare to take some beating on them. That's when the hard choice of mystic shield target may come in. 

[Samurai_Eduh]

Thinking about taking this to a 1500pt  tournament in December:

 

Megaboss on Maw Krusha (-1 rend artifact, d3 inspiring presence trait)

Warchanter

Moonclan Grot Shaman

10x Brutes

10x 'Ard Boyz

10x 'Ard Boyz

3x Gore Gruntas

 

Comes out to 1480/1500. What do you guys think?

[Malakree]

5 hours ago, Samurai_Eduh said:

Megaboss on Maw Krusha (-1 rend artifact, d3 inspiring presence trait)

Quick point, the -1 rend is "Ironclad" and it's a trait not an artefact sadly. Your best bet is "Daubing of Mork" the 6++ save, that is an artefact.

[Sangfroid]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Quick point, the -1 rend is "Ironclad" and it's a trait not an artefact sadly. Your best bet is "Daubing of Mork" the 6++ save, that is an artefact.

He may mean Meatrippa which adds -1 rend to a weapon? 

As for the list, I like it but may consider swaping in 10 more brutes for the 2x10 Ardboyz to really make se of the trait with two solid brute blocks 

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

He may mean Meatrippa which adds -1 rend to a weapon? 

As for the list, I like it but may consider swaping in 10 more brutes for the 2x10 Ardboyz to really make se of the trait with two solid brute blocks 

Ahhh ok.

In my head "Rend" means "-1 to save" so "-1 Rend" means decrease rend by 1 while "+1 Rend" means increase the rend by 1. Hence my conclusion, I see what you mean tho.

[Samurai_Eduh]

1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

He may mean Meatrippa which adds -1 rend to a weapon? 

As for the list, I like it but may consider swaping in 10 more brutes for the 2x10 Ardboyz to really make se of the trait with two solid brute blocks 

I like the idea of 2x10 Brutes, but I have a feeling I'm going to see quite a few star drakes and if my brutes  don't cripple it pretty quickly, they'll start evaporating as the drake eats 2-3 a turn.

[sporadicMike]

Finally had an awesome experience with smashing and bashing. So thought I would share. 

5 man unit of brutes took out a unit of prosecutors that dropped in my backfield.  Then my Gore Gruntas took out 2 of his retributors before they got to go. 

Later in the game another 5 man unit of brutes finished off his unit of judicators. My mega boss on foot then took out a 5 man unit of liberators thanks in part to the destroyer artifact and his poor save rolls. Then my maw krusha took out another 5 man unit of liberators. Finally my Gore gruntas mentioned above were able to take out another retributor leaving him with only one.  That lone star soul mace was all he got to attack with. 

After this combat round  I was able to destroy two objectives on his side of the board. (scorched earth)

His face showed it all, he was demoralised. I felt for the guy but then I remembered he was playing storm cast so....Waaaaaagggghhhhh!