xking

Games Workshop is Being Sued for 62.5 Million, But does the guy even have a case?

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So Games Workshop is Being Sued for 62.5 Million. But I don't think it will go anywhere.

 

 

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This video is not even worth repost imo.

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28 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

This video is not even worth repost imo.

Can you at least explain why? I am not educated in law. I don't think the guy has much of a case, but i could be wrong.  I would like an opinion of someone more educated then me on such matters.

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Just now, xking said:

Can you at least explain why? I am not educated in law. I don't think the guy has much of a case, but i could be wrong.  I would like an opinion of someone more educated then me on such matters.

Well, I'm not educated in law so I am the wrong person to ask.  My critique is of the handling of the story in the video itself.  Rob clearly has no background in this and his take is anything but fair and balanced.  There are many points throughout the video where he makes huge leaps that just aren't justifiable.  The whole things smacks of a click bate video, thus my comment.  

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4 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Well, I'm not educated in law so I am the wrong person to ask.  My critique is of the handling of the story in the video itself.  Rob clearly has no background in this and his take is anything but fair and balanced.  There are many points throughout the video where he makes huge leaps that just aren't justifiable.  The whole things smacks of a click bate video, thus my comment.  

Oh, okay.

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Posted (edited)

Just some random thoughts. There is a lot going on here, but I don't think the guy has much of a case against GW.

One of the big topics in the video that the Spikey Bits guy talks about is the pricing of the models and sets. Part of the lawsuit seems to be saying that GW is doing price fixing and market manipulation by charging a lot for their models when their costs to produce them are low. The fact is, in America, you can charge what-ever you want for your product. It's called MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). A company charges what it feels it's product is worth to the customer and if the customer does not feel that the cost/benefit is worth it, then they don't buy the product.  Which is why you will see deep price discounts on products that don't sell. (Arcane Legions anyone? $5 box sets on miniature market). The fact is that GW is a company that creates a premium product and they charge accordingly for it. Does a customer buying a Ferrari pay the cost of the metal and rubber that makes up the car? No, they pay for the production costs, the artistry that goes into creating the car and they pay for the reputation and cache of the Ferrari name.

Another topic is that the lawsuit seems to claim that GW is a monopoly and manipulates the market by opening its own stores and selling its products through its own website and physical store locations. Which is kind of mind boggling to me.  Its not unusual for a company to only sell its product through its own stores. Lots of companies do that. And its not a monopoly because there are dozens and dozens of various miniatures producers that customers can choose from other than GW. Which leads back to their pricing model. If GW were the only company that produced miniatures then there could be a valid complaint that their high prices are price gouging and they were using there monopoly to accomplish it.  But as I mentioned, because there are plenty of other mini's companies out there, that argument is moot.

Feels to me like this is a non-starter. I dont think he'll even get a settlement. Just my 2 cents.

ETA I work in the law world but I'm not a lawyer.

Edited by Null Field
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Like others I'm no lawyer but also have the same opinion, I don't think this would realistically go anywhere.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

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I remember reading this when it cropped up (sad to admit I did click on a Spikey Bits link) and had to chuckle at the massive number of assumptions.  One of the core arguments is that it cots $0.03 to produce a model - I'm not entirely sure where they plucked that figure from?  It's plausible that the raw material costs that, but I'm fairly sure that the manufacturing and design costs will ramp that up massively (we know from GW's financials that they put millions into their factory equipment).

I also find it difficult to take a self professed "Hobby Expert" seriously... (I won't go into the fact he's added an e into spiky)

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Posted (edited)

Didn't watch the video, but read the full complaint elsewhere.  There are a few decent points about business practices buried in the complaont, but they are buried in a lot of nonsense.  Most people point to the £0.03 claim that takes no factors other than the plastic in the mould into account.  Plenty of places list the myriad of other factors involved, so I will not.

The lack of understanding of what constitutes a "monopoly" is also evident.  He does describe how GW treats third party retailers pretty badly, but I don't see a monopoly.  It's like saying that Kelloggs has a monopoly on creating Frosties, ignoring the much wider cereal market that it leads, including many products that are almost identical to their own (hi, Mantic!).

The bit where the complaint really goes off the rails is where he starts to complain about GW's IP.  He describes it as unoriginal and accuses them of ripping off Tolkien, in the case of fantasy, and Heinlein in the case of 40K, among others.

Maybe he is right, maybe not.  It doesn't really matter here as he does not hold any of the properties they supposedly plagiarized.  That whole section is irrelevant as he cannot sue them over an infringement of some else's IP.  It really is bizarre.

Odd, Odd, odd.

Edit: there are also a lot of little, inaccurate details about the company scattered throughout.

Edited by Tavendale
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Found it funny that he makes it a point in his complaint that he is a disabled veteran (which has nothing to do with anything), then adds that Europe and GW run on a socialist law base that is anti free market and free enterprise.

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Posted (edited)

It reads like it's written by a serial moaner from Warseer or the BoLs front page. It's getting coverage from people who need a bit more traffic on their webpages and it's the sort of thing that will get people to click.  I suspect any large company gets numerous such claims every year.

Also there's no mention of Soace Marines in Starship Troopers, bloody good book though. 

Orcs, Elves and Dwarfs weren't invented by Tolkien they are established parts of Northen European folk law. 

Edited by Ollie Grimwood

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

The whole things smacks of a click bate video, thus my comment.

As does the entire spikeybits website. I commented yesterday on how 90% of the front viewing area is ads and clickbait. the info is available on more reputable sites without being an ad victim lol

edit: Oi Gaz, that word made the post!

Edited by Terry Pike
slight edit to make more public friendly
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It's like he's trying to relive the Boston Tea party... WITH MINIATURES!

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Pro internet tip: If a website looks like this, you are in the wrong place and potentially being covered in malware!

clickbait.jpg.01a754efa2b607b3256a1f50fd9db98d.jpg

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Yeah whole thing sounds like 

"This one simple trick allows you to reverse the signs of aging by 30 years "

"Dietians HATE this one simple easy trick to loose weight fast and easy"

Etc

If there is a case I'd counter sue for defamation due to damaging reputation once won.

 

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My bet: out-of-court settlement approximating $ 2mil.

Dont forget we're talking about a law suite raking place in the united states of ridiculous law.

If he makes it to the point involving a jury gw can lose, very, very much money (dont forget about half of the people voted trump... make america great again).

A friend told me yesterday the firm hes working for was sued for 500k $ in the us, because a person ignored 3 warning sings and a fence and got injured.

 

I wouldnt relay on a "logical" judgment.

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Glad it's not just me that feels I need to shower in bleach if I accidentally chance across one of those sites :S

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According to well verified sources the guy will ask for a settlement in 5000 points of each army in the GW store included future releases and all to be painted by Duncan.

Rumour has it that the guy is playing Nurgle and Death 

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I feel sorry for those dudes who run sites like Spikeybits and Bols. I'm sure when they started them up they had the best of intentions with the side benefit of make a few quid. Now they're run to gouge every last penny. I guess the moral would be to keep hobby and career separate lest you wind up hating both (and probably yourself). Sorry, slight tangent there.

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15 minutes ago, Marc Wilson said:

I guess the moral would be to keep hobby and career separate lest you wind up hating both

The reason I don't do many commission projects anymore, I ended up hating painting anything for a while

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I don't think that this case will go anywhere.

That being said, on the facebook groups there are an awful lot of people hoping that GW loses millions for overcharging them.  That seems to be the emotional centre of this lawsuit to a lot of people.

That being said, I agree with the sentiments about the US court systems voiced above.  Anything can happen.  Especially if a jury is involved, because a lot of this case seems tied into emotions, and emotions > logic.

The reason I don't do many commission projects anymore, I ended up hating painting anything for a while

Same.  Commission painting was how I funded my hobby for many years but yeah I started hating it over time.

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24 minutes ago, Auticus said:

That being said, on the facebook groups there are an awful lot of people hoping that GW loses millions for overcharging them.  That seems to be the emotional centre of this lawsuit to a lot of people.

Nerd entitlement never ceases to amaze me. Nothing is forcing us to play these games or buy their minis. There are many other options out there. Hell, a player could even play GW games but use whatever minis they want.

To be honest, I like that GW has sort of positioned themselves as the 'Cadillac' of minis games. In this age of unproven kickstarter ****** and fan pandering...it's refreshing that GW is doing their own thing. Even if some choices can sting...I applaud what they do.

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I'm a musician and a game developer.   I also used to fight in the SCA.  

Any of those three things cost me exponentially more money than a GW army.  

I jokingly stated that I should sue Tama for making my drumset cost so much.

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