Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Jack Shrapnel]

So managed to acquire a blood coven box set, the battletome and a box of medusai all new on sprue, and want to take the plunge into building a daughters of khaine force. Basically I know I want Medusai, and I know I want Morathi (the model is just too cool not to have).  It appears like a cauldron of blood is one of those auto-take units due to the aura of +1 saves (but I might be totally off base here).  I'm more leaning towards the snake theme than anything else just from a model perspective. Temple Nest seems... well just okay... I might be missing something,  but investing 400 points in two units of stalkers and the battalion cost seems like a huge point investment at 2k for the benefit, compared to just spending those points on more efficient units?

I've been combing through the majority of this thread, but thought it would probably just be a lot more efficient to ask the experts!

A Morathi + snakes list... how best to do it?    Any help is greatly appreciated - these models aren't exactly cheap!

[DantePQ]

@Jack Shrapnel

I played 18 players tournament yesterday and finished 3rd with my Snake List I've been using

HaggNarr 

Bloodwrack Shrine Medusa - General - Amulet of Dark Fire - Steed of Shadows 

HagQueen on Cauldron - Blessing of Khaine 

Morathi - Mindrazor 

Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder 

30 Witches with pair of knives 

10 Witches with Bucklers 

20 Blood Sisters 

5 Heartrenders 

It works great for me, Steed of Shadows is amazing I will be switching item on Medusa for sure in new edition to +1 do As - Crown of Woe or something from new items (item that gives an aura of reducing MW from magic could be huge as Medusa already gives you an aura)

I got some awesome results with that build

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Blood sisters are excellent in pretty much any list, Blood Stalkers are quite expensive compared to their low damage output.

I've been running 15 Blood Sisters along with Morathi and Witch Aelves, to begin with just because I needed something that would crack through 2+ re-rollable armour saves and the like, but they are often a stand-out unit in my games.  They're basically just more elite Witch Aelves with less attacks, Catechism can pump their mortal wound output to dangerous levels if you get a little lucky, Mindrazor makes them obscene, doubly so against anything Bravery 8 or less (they will plainly delete Tzaangor blobs from the table, for example.)  You can use the faster Witches as a first wave (I use Hagg Nar, so aiming for a turn 2 charge with Sacrament for the re-rolls) and bring the snakes in next turn to mop up tough targets (Turn 3 so they also get those juicy re-rolls), or against more mobile lists they make a good counter-punch element if anything manages to chew through your Witches.

That was a profound answer, thank you for that.

[InSaint]

How do you guys feel about Doomfire Warlocks?

IMO, I think they suffer from a jack-of-all trades syndrome. Somewhat able to do many stuff but not excellent, probably good in small 1k games. In larger games, I would splurge to take more specialized units that can fill what they do.

1. Mortal Wounds and Spell casting - Bloodwrack Shrine, more mortal wounds and able to bind/unbind 1 spell even though more expensive in point cost.
2. Mobility and Objective securing - Khinerai Heartrenders, same mobility, better range, able to deepstrike, minimum of 5 and same point cost.

[syph0n]

33 minutes ago, InSaint said:

How do you guys feel about Doomfire Warlocks?

IMO, I think they suffer from a jack-of-all trades syndrome. Somewhat able to do many stuff but not excellent, probably good in small 1k games. In larger games, I would splurge to take more specialized units that can fill what they do.

1. Mortal Wounds and Spell casting - Bloodwrack Shrine, more mortal wounds and able to bind/unbind 1 spell even though more expensive in point cost.
2. Mobility and Objective securing - Khinerai Heartrenders, same mobility, better range, able to deepstrike, minimum of 5 and same point cost.

I take them because I have 10 and I like the models! ?

[DJMoose]

25 minutes ago, InSaint said:

How do you guys feel about Doomfire Warlocks?

IMO, I think they suffer from a jack-of-all trades syndrome. Somewhat able to do many stuff but not excellent, probably good in small 1k games. In larger games, I would splurge to take more specialized units that can fill what they do.

1. Mortal Wounds and Spell casting - Bloodwrack Shrine, more mortal wounds and able to bind/unbind 1 spell even though more expensive in point cost.
2. Mobility and Objective securing - Khinerai Heartrenders, same mobility, better range, able to deepstrike, minimum of 5 and same point cost.

I also feel like they suffer from jack-of-all trades syndrome; ok at many things, not amazing at anything.  How I have used them is as a multi-wound spellcaster, mainly trying to get off their signature spell before I take casualties.  Personally I don't think I would use more than units of 5 unless I had a really big game.  With the new edition I think I will be using them primarily as an annoyance unit to very quickly get into unbinding range and to support my other Medusas.

As an aside, I want to add more Medusas to my army.  Have any of you found any interesting alternative models to use? 

While I love the default model, it is very difficult to convert them into any different pose or make them different from the default aside from using a head swap.  Any suggestions?  I might pursue the option of converting some out of Melusai.  I'm a maniac converter and can't have my heroes all looking the same. ?

[Kirjava13]

@DJMoose Mierce Miniatures has some interesting options in their Gorgons, you would probably need to convert them a tad (four arms is a bit too Slaaneshi for a pious devotee of Morathi, I think!) but maybe something catches your eye!

[ClockworkGeo91]

On 6/17/2018 at 9:38 AM, DantePQ said:

@Jack Shrapnel

I played 18 players tournament yesterday and finished 3rd with my Snake List I've been using

HaggNarr 

Bloodwrack Shrine Medusa - General - Amulet of Dark Fire - Steed of Shadows 

HagQueen on Cauldron - Blessing of Khaine 

Morathi - Mindrazor 

Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder 

30 Witches with pair of knives 

10 Witches with Bucklers 

20 Blood Sisters 

5 Heartrenders 

It works great for me, Steed of Shadows is amazing I will be switching item on Medusa for sure in new edition to +1 do As - Crown of Woe or something from new items (item that gives an aura of reducing MW from magic could be huge as Medusa already gives you an aura)

I got some awesome results with that build

Any details about your games?  Would love to hear how a big unit of Blood Sisters did?!

[DantePQ]

Sure, I've played against mixed Order heavy shooting stuff, SCE with Stardrake and Plauge-Monks heavy Skavens. 

Blood Sisters were amazing, - they weren't able to put down Stardrake, but they captured obejctive in the middle and with Blessing Of Khaine were very tough to move

I love how they perform, I won't make many changes to my lists with new edition (I might change item on Medusa to Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection) to make the bubble around her even better. I also would love to fit Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into this but that would mean serious redesign of whole army. But I think 2nd edition open-up some interesting options for Daughters of Khaine - I already have Kheilbron/Draichi Ganeth army with Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi in mind. Draichi Ganeth is cool and I might try it.   

For anybody interested there is also a video recap from that tourney (in Polish though) there are great shots of my army battling SCE at the begining and then from 9.30

 

 

[Bosmer Nightblade]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Sure, I've played against mixed Order heavy shooting stuff, SCE with Stardrake and Plauge-Monks heavy Skavens. 

Blood Sisters were amazing, - they weren't able to put down Stardrake, but they captured obejctive in the middle and with Blessing Of Khaine were very tough to move

I love how they perform, I won't make many changes to my lists with new edition (I might change item on Medusa to Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection) to make the bubble around her even better. I also would love to fit Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into this but that would mean serious redesign of whole army. But I think 2nd edition open-up some interesting options for Daughters of Khaine - I already have Kheilbron/Draichi Ganeth army with Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi in mind. Draichi Ganeth is cool and I might try it.   

For anybody interested there is also a video recap from that tourney (in Polish though) there are great shots of my army battling SCE at the begining and then from 9.30

 

 

What unit size do you run the blood sisters in, and do you think it's worth putting them as a 20 for the discount?

[Ben]

I’ve been running Warlocking in 10’s with Khalibron.  Teleport to arcane for +2 to cast auto 6MW , tail back the large unit to get range from buffs too.  Lots of attacks per turn.  It’s a great all round unit.  

[DantePQ]

@Bosmer Nightblade

I run them in one big unit of 20 I think it's totally worth it with Witchbrew as they are hard to wipe out and have amazing damage output also you can block any objective and then they are hard to move (HaggNar 5++,Mystic Shield, Bloodshield) 

[Olincay]

18 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Sure, I've played against mixed Order heavy shooting stuff, SCE with Stardrake and Plauge-Monks heavy Skavens. 

Blood Sisters were amazing, - they weren't able to put down Stardrake, but they captured obejctive in the middle and with Blessing Of Khaine were very tough to move

I love how they perform, I won't make many changes to my lists with new edition (I might change item on Medusa to Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection) to make the bubble around her even better. I also would love to fit Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into this but that would mean serious redesign of whole army. But I think 2nd edition open-up some interesting options for Daughters of Khaine - I already have Kheilbron/Draichi Ganeth army with Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi in mind. Draichi Ganeth is cool and I might try it.   

For anybody interested there is also a video recap from that tourney (in Polish though) there are great shots of my army battling SCE at the begining and then from 9.30

 

 

Mate, your army looks f'n incredible on the board, I'm totally and utterly jealous and impressed at the same time. 

[ClockworkGeo91]

20 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Sure, I've played against mixed Order heavy shooting stuff, SCE with Stardrake and Plauge-Monks heavy Skavens. 

Blood Sisters were amazing, - they weren't able to put down Stardrake, but they captured obejctive in the middle and with Blessing Of Khaine were very tough to move

I love how they perform, I won't make many changes to my lists with new edition (I might change item on Medusa to Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection) to make the bubble around her even better. I also would love to fit Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into this but that would mean serious redesign of whole army. But I think 2nd edition open-up some interesting options for Daughters of Khaine - I already have Kheilbron/Draichi Ganeth army with Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi in mind. Draichi Ganeth is cool and I might try it.   

For anybody interested there is also a video recap from that tourney (in Polish though) there are great shots of my army battling SCE at the begining and then from 9.30

 

 

Thanks for this man - I was going to build a witch heavy army with 10 Snakes, but after seeing your results - I think i'll steal your list

[DantePQ]

@Olincay thanks a lot  I love how that army came to life, and there are Warlocks, more Snakes and Witches coming soon 

@ClockworkGeo91 no problem enjoy it, 20 snake strong units is really awesome in HaggNarr with 5++ and re-rolls of all hits from turn 3 on it's great. 

Also I've played 2 games today with new rules, endless spells and scenarios and Shadowmirror(relic of Uglu) or Lens of Refeclection(relic of Hysh) on Medusa is bonkres - as she already needs to be 7'' from crucial units with 5++ aura, giving all those units in 6'' another aura is crazy strong. 

Both games were against magic heavy Tzeentch and both were won with ease. Tzeentch was bit pretty hard so out of two Shadowmirror will be better I guess (and it's quite fluffy item to take on Bloodwrack Shrine) 

I didn't expected that my armies will have such an amazing track record against Changehost as I've won all battles against very strong players and it won't change with new edition but Ogroid, LoC, Herald, Gaunt and Curseling blasting spells through Umbrall Portal is CRAZY as there is little you can do to stop it, thanks to Lens of Reflection I did good, but DoT magic phase is more scary then before. Difference is DoT no longer has enough bodies to be reliable in scenarios and some match-ups will be very tricky (for example DoK)

[sorokyl]

Hi guys 

 I love Love DoK, specifically Morathi. I have read the battletome and love the fluff. Hope they're done justice in the corebook.  I want an army, but can't afford to jump in deep right now due to this being my 3rd army since I (not so long ago) started.  I have to be budget conscious, which this is not a great army for!  However, I have gotten lucky and picked up a few things along the way discounted on ebay.  I have a Morathi, 1 box Khinerai, 1 box Warlocks, 2 boxes Blood Coven.   Was wondering what you guys thought about a few things: 

 1. I suspect a SC box will come out in 6-12 months. What do you think will be in it? Just the same as blood coven? Replace the witch aelves with Khinerai/Mellusai?  Seems it has to have a shrine, there are no other hero kits

2. Would love for a battleforce box to come out this winter.  Seems quite probable no? The battleforce release seem to have a pattern.  Historically:
2016 battleforce - Ironjaws (battletome released 4/30/16, Sylvaneth ( battletome released 7/9/16), Stormcast (duh), Khorne 
2017 battleforce  - Tzeentch (battletome released 1/21/17, Kharadron Overlords (battletome released 4/22/17), Stormcast (duh), Death
2018 battleforce - DoK ?? ( battletome released 3/3/2018)  Idoneth ?? (Battletome released 4/21/18), Stormcast(duh), ??? 
In that I assume there will be a shrine kit (or two) , some witch aelves, maybe some khinerai or mellusai. What do you think?

With those two things. It's really pushing me to wait and focus on my other armies for a while. I'm interested to see what you guys think about those prospects, or any theories of your own (I don't think we get new models any time soon, but I could be wrong. These are the soul wars!)

3.  Blood Coven.  OOP now it seems.  My 2 are still sealed.  Are 2 shrine kits viable with Mortathi on the table, or is 1 the max? I would magnetize it, so I only need 2 kits if I can play them both together. How would you build/play them?    I'm sure I could get my money back selling 1 if 2 is overkill. Keep 1 to build / paint / tide me over.  Though the value proposition is moot if I don't have this army on the table before a SC/battleforce comes out (I am assuming both will be better value).  If the battleforce box has the right contents, 2 battleforce boxes 0 blood coven might even be the way to go!

Thanks for hearing me out, looking forward to hearing your thoughts!


 

[DantePQ]

@sorokyl

Look up my army posted earlier I've been using both Bloodwrack Shrine and Cauldron with pretty good results. For sure you got to have more witches (10 min for a start)

[ClockworkGeo91]

10 hours ago, sorokyl said:

Hi guys 

 I love Love DoK, specifically Morathi. I have read the battletome and love the fluff. Hope they're done justice in the corebook.  I want an army, but can't afford to jump in deep right now due to this being my 3rd army since I (not so long ago) started.  I have to be budget conscious, which this is not a great army for!  However, I have gotten lucky and picked up a few things along the way discounted on ebay.  I have a Morathi, 1 box Khinerai, 1 box Warlocks, 2 boxes Blood Coven.   Was wondering what you guys thought about a few things: 

 1. I suspect a SC box will come out in 6-12 months. What do you think will be in it? Just the same as blood coven? Replace the witch aelves with Khinerai/Mellusai?  Seems it has to have a shrine, there are no other hero kits

2. Would love for a battleforce box to come out this winter.  Seems quite probable no? The battleforce release seem to have a pattern.  Historically:
2016 battleforce - Ironjaws (battletome released 4/30/16, Sylvaneth ( battletome released 7/9/16), Stormcast (duh), Khorne 
2017 battleforce  - Tzeentch (battletome released 1/21/17, Kharadron Overlords (battletome released 4/22/17), Stormcast (duh), Death
2018 battleforce - DoK ?? ( battletome released 3/3/2018)  Idoneth ?? (Battletome released 4/21/18), Stormcast(duh), ??? 
In that I assume there will be a shrine kit (or two) , some witch aelves, maybe some khinerai or mellusai. What do you think?

With those two things. It's really pushing me to wait and focus on my other armies for a while. I'm interested to see what you guys think about those prospects, or any theories of your own (I don't think we get new models any time soon, but I could be wrong. These are the soul wars!)

3.  Blood Coven.  OOP now it seems.  My 2 are still sealed.  Are 2 shrine kits viable with Mortathi on the table, or is 1 the max? I would magnetize it, so I only need 2 kits if I can play them both together. How would you build/play them?    I'm sure I could get my money back selling 1 if 2 is overkill. Keep 1 to build / paint / tide me over.  Though the value proposition is moot if I don't have this army on the table before a SC/battleforce comes out (I am assuming both will be better value).  If the battleforce box has the right contents, 2 battleforce boxes 0 blood coven might even be the way to go!

Thanks for hearing me out, looking forward to hearing your thoughts!


 

2 Blood covens are what I started with and are certainly still a solid starting place. As @DantePQ says, you can run both shrines in a list - on top you'll get Hag Queens, Slaughter queens (I put these on regular bases and then rest them in the cauldron), Avatars and Medusas, taking care of your command needs for sure. Beyond that buy a couple of witches and Melusai and you have a solid army!

Crack those coven boxes open  

[syph0n]

The Shrine is an absolutely fantastic kit, especially now the Avatar can be used in game. Bloodwrack Shrine 220, Hag 60, Slaughter Queen 100 and 180 for an Avatar... From one model. That's brilliant. It's formed the starting point of my 1k list because it's so flexible. 

It's also worth thinking that we literally have no idea about any impending Start Collecting or larger boxes, other than your best guess of maybe Christmas time. 

[Lemondish]

On 6/18/2018 at 12:52 PM, DantePQ said:

Sure, I've played against mixed Order heavy shooting stuff, SCE with Stardrake and Plauge-Monks heavy Skavens. 

Blood Sisters were amazing, - they weren't able to put down Stardrake, but they captured obejctive in the middle and with Blessing Of Khaine were very tough to move

I love how they perform, I won't make many changes to my lists with new edition (I might change item on Medusa to Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection) to make the bubble around her even better. I also would love to fit Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into this but that would mean serious redesign of whole army. But I think 2nd edition open-up some interesting options for Daughters of Khaine - I already have Kheilbron/Draichi Ganeth army with Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi in mind. Draichi Ganeth is cool and I might try it.   

For anybody interested there is also a video recap from that tourney (in Polish though) there are great shots of my army battling SCE at the begining and then from 9.30

 

 

I simply must know how you achieved that look. It's absolutely amazing. This is the most beautiful DoK army I've ever seen

[ClockworkGeo91]

Played my first game with DoK l;ast night and first game of AoS ever and took a draw, certainly took  it on the merits of the DoK rather than my skill. If I had known what I was doing, I am certain I could have taken it  

750pts against Seraphon 2 objectives and game ended on round 5 with 1 objective each. 

My list was: 

- Temple: Hagg Nar
LEADERS
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Devoted Desciples
- Artefact : Thousand and One Dark Blessings
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Martyr's Sacrifice
UNITS
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Blood Sisters (280)

His list was:

1x Skink Starpriest

9x Kroxigor

10x Skink

10x Skink

1xSalamander

Turn 1 he gained priority (due to his drops) and he moved everything up - I did the same and my overconfidence made me move my sisters close to his Kroxigor, got my prayers off on the sisters but failed Mindrazor. My witches moved to the center to contest the central objective and the two units of Skinks.

Turn 2 - His Korxigors moved up and charged my sisters, I unbound his buffing spell,  his skinks took out 2 witches, his salamander took three wounds off my Medusa. Korxigors then proceeded to smash my sisters down to 3 left and at this point I was concerned for the rest of the game. They hit back and and take 1 and a half out and then another with Martyr's sacrifice. I then charge my witches into his first unit skinks. My second hag queen takes the objective on the far left. All prayers and mindrazor go off except one of my hag's took 2 mortal wounds from failing one. Bloodwrack uses her gaze on the second unit of skinks which kills 5 out of ten. She and the wounded hag then charge into the remainder to try and take the central objective. The witches land 45 hits, using witch brew, mindrazor and catechism of murder and it's safe to say the skinks didn't survive. Likewise my medusa takes no hits from the 5 skinks and kills 4 between her and the hag, with the final skink retreating. The combat with the Korxigor ends in the death of the final sisters and there are 7 krixigors left.

Turn 3 - 5

His salamander eats 2 witches, and is swiftly blitzed by the witches. The Kroxigors join the fray with the witches, Medusa and central hag. Over the course of three turns only 3 Kroxigors are left, with my Hag queen surviving all the way to the 5th turn, holding them up. My other hag stands unhurt by the far objective and the 3 remaining Kroxigors hold the central. Ends in a draw.

Like I said, I messed up a lot but the sheer murder power of the witches held me up. When the Kroxigors joined, they left only 5 witches but those five witches still took down three Kroxigor and one to Martyr's sacrifice - so I was carried to turn 5 by my Witches and my brave Hag queen who held them up for 2 turns!

[Gecktron]

1½ months later I finally managed to finish Morathis other form as well. 

It took me quite some time but it was so worth it. Morathi is a great centerpiece model. Unique rules and a impressiv model. 

 

Now back to painting the rest of my witch aelfs...

[syph0n]

Great work @Gecktron!

 

[DJMoose]

Temple Nest battalion went up 50pts.  Going to be hard to fit a good Temple Nest into 1000pts games now.  Which is ok, now I'll just have an excuse to have bigger Blood Sister units. ?

What irks me is that they designed DoK with 2nd edition in mind, and then they made all our command abilities only usable by the general, and then raise the points costs on all of our battalions.  When they want you to use all heroes and battalions this edition.

Temple Nest is basically the only battalion I would want to use too; not a huge fan of the other ones.  MAYBE shadow patrol if I ever felt like getting that many Heartrenders, as I already have the Warlocks.

[Lucentia]

I feel like the DoK unique command abilities are potent enough that only being available to the general seems pretty fair, especially with the added generic command abilities being fairly decent little additions to the army in their own right.