Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Gecktron]

19 minutes ago, Myra said:

Hi everyone. 

New AoS player here. Ive never played a GW game before, forewarning you. I’m starting DoK as my first ever army (!) but looking just to play at about 1k points to start and build from there.

My first plan was to accommodate Morathi into a 1k list. (Mental note: start planning Morathi cosplay when I get around to buying her).

This is what I ended up with (and somehow, it doesn’t feel cheesy enough...)

Temple: Hagg Nar

1 Hag Queen (60)

General; Khainite Pendent, Catechism of Murder.

1 Hag Queen (60)

Blessing of Khaine.

1 Morathi (480)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

 

Not sure about that list because I don’t really want Witches without a CoB. I’m pro Melusai so figured the following alternative list:

Temple: Hagg Nar 

1 Bloodwrack Shrine (Mindrazor) (220)

Shadow Stone or Amulet of Dark Fire

1 Hag Queen (Catechism of Murder) (60)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

I’m trying to build a balanced all-comers list as I still get used to the game and just want a decent range of options. I think the second list looks better but the first list feels oddly fun (+ Morathi). 

Here’s where I’m stuck:

1. How badly do I need a CoB? Are my Melusai going to get throttled hard at 1k? Given the Medusa-General requirement, I can’t get a Hag-CoB or a Slaughter-CoB in here! 

2. Thanks to the upcoming “Look Out Sir (ARGH)” rule, is my Foot-Hag going to be safer?  How many Foot-Hags should I be running at 1k? Are they going to die a lot? 

3. Can you play DoK without Witchbrew? Would Snake heavy lists get away without that on raw power? (This is my “blond” question of the day). 

4. Is it possible to even dream of a 1k Morathi list?! (Okay... two blond questions).

 

 

First of all, your two lists: I would take Morathi as your general. Her command ability is really powerful and at only 1K you have to use it. Sure, you loose out on the Hag-Narr trait but a Hag Queen is a easy target and they tend to die quickly. Even more so as they can hurt themselves when they roll 1 when praying. 

Your second list looks good. I regually use Blood Sisters and a Bloodwrack Shrine at 1K. But I recommend using 1 unit of 10 instead of 2x5 Heartrenders. This gives you one less deployment drop and Heartrenders only get reliable in greater numbers. 

 

Now to your questions.

1. A Cauldron is nice to have but a Hag-Narr Bloodwrack Shrines gives you the same level of protection.  Its also cheaper than a Cauldron, you can spent the difference on Hag Queens instead (seriously, Witch Brew is crazy good). 10 Blood Sisters are a force at 1K. Witch Brew, Catechism of Murder and Mindrazor and you can kill practically everything after turn 2. 

2. You should always run at least one Hag Queen. They die easily when focused down. Even quicker if you get unlucky when praying. 

3.  Seriously, take the Witch Brew! You get to re-roll all to-wound rolls and you dont have to take Bravery Tests. This gets even better next edition as you can save up Command Points this way as you dont have to spend them on inspiring presence. 

4. Yes. You can use her on 1K. You won't have much else on the battlefield besides her but thats perfectly fine if you have a more relaxed gaming group. 
 

[Zerthin]

Hi guys!

I'm considering the following list. Either Hagg Nar or Khaileron (it'll come out during testing).

1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood

1x Bloodwrack Shrine (General)

2x Hag Queen

20x Blood Sisters

30x Witch Aelves

10x Witch Aelves

10x Doomfire Warlocks

10x Khinerai Heartrenders (or 2x5 but it'll come out during testing)

 

I really would like to fit Morathi into my list but she'll have to wait.

Anyways: any suggestions?

And most importantly: How do I actually use Doomfire Warlocks to be succesful with them and not feel like they're wasted (shot down?) points I could've used on Morathi?

[AsraiR]

So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

[Aaron Schmidt]

Did anyone catch that Reinforcements cannot be part of a warscroll battalion?  That is a drag.

[DantePQ]

11 hours ago, AsraiR said:

So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

Are you sure that there are no points changes to units? 

I don't care much about Battalions as I hardly used them, tried Slaughter Troupe several times but it was nothing spectacular. 

[ClockworkGeo91]

14 hours ago, AsraiR said:

So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

Battalions just got more useful, yet I find DoK's battalions to be not that intuitive to use. Cauldron guard is probably the one I would use to get some CPs but even then, two units of Lifetakers as tax. In addition the bonus is not that great considering a simple banner and horn in a unit of Witches will get you into combat anyway. 

However I probably will pay the Lifetaker tax, for the drops and the added benefits it will have in the upcoming edition. Or I guess a snake heavy list, for the Temple Nest and pay the stalker tax and get a semi-decent benefit. But I guess most Factions have a tax to pay when it comes to battalions!

[Bellfree]

2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Are you sure that there are no points changes to units? 

I don't care much about Battalions as I hardly used them, tried Slaughter Troupe several times but it was nothing spectacular. 

The bonuses were basically nothing, I never even remembered to use the Slaughter troupe bonus, but getting the extra relic and reducing drops was worth the points. It's a nasty hit to Shadowhammer compact though, which was the only battalion that significantly impacted the way the list played.

[ClockworkGeo91]

21 hours ago, Zerthin said:

Hi guys!

I'm considering the following list. Either Hagg Nar or Khaileron (it'll come out during testing).

1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood

1x Bloodwrack Shrine (General)

2x Hag Queen

20x Blood Sisters

30x Witch Aelves

10x Witch Aelves

10x Doomfire Warlocks

10x Khinerai Heartrenders (or 2x5 but it'll come out during testing)

 

I really would like to fit Morathi into my list but she'll have to wait.

Anyways: any suggestions?

And most importantly: How do I actually use Doomfire Warlocks to be succesful with them and not feel like they're wasted (shot down?) points I could've used on Morathi?

You could bubble wrap them with your small unit of 10 Witches- You still have your bloodwrack shrine to cast Mindrazor on your sisters, and it's more survivable (theoretically). Warlocks will be good to grab objectives and unbind spells but put your better spells on the Shrine for sure. Your Blood Sisters, with Mindrazor, Brew and Turn Three bonuses should take care of the rest

[Bellfree]

8 minutes ago, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Battalions just got more useful, yet I find DoK's battalions to be not that intuitive to use. Cauldron guard is probably the one I would use to get some CPs but even then, two units of Lifetakers as tax. In addition the bonus is not that great considering a simple banner and horn in a unit of Witches will get you into combat anyway. 

However I probably will pay the Lifetaker tax, for the drops and the added benefits it will have in the upcoming edition. Or I guess a snake heavy list, for the Temple Nest and pay the stalker tax and get a semi-decent benefit. But I guess most Factions have a tax to pay when it comes to battalions!

Slaughter troupe is still the only really viable battalion in my opinion. It's the only one that doesn't force you to take subpar units. With the battalions being more expensive, adding tax units on top of them pushes them out of contention unless you desperately need two relics. You'd generally be better off just taking better units and saving 50pts for a CP or endless spell.

I think they really whiffed on DoK here, especially not changing Blood Sisters in an edition that HEAVILY nerfs shooting. I guess it depends on where everyone ELSE ends up after the dust clears, though.

[DantePQ]

I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

[ClockworkGeo91]

3 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

Yeah I agree I'm happy with DoK, we are certainly a strong side with a really solid battleline, which is really worth the points. I was also worried about hags going up - for her price she is one of the best support heroes in the game!

[DantePQ]

Yes my go-to army to test will look like that (but I guess I will play my 20 Blood Sisters Bloodwrack Shrine army as I planned to drop Morathi for second unit of 20 snakes but Morathi got much better now):

Morathi with Mindrazor 

SlaughterQueen on Cauldron with Heart of Woe (Blessing prayer)

3xHag Queen (Sacrament of Blood, Catechism,Martyr's Sacrifice) 

2x30 Witches (one unit with knives one with bucklers)

30 Sisters of Slaughter

2x5 Heartrenders

1990

that's a lot of bodies, 3 spells a turn, also I can easily drop one hag queen/one unit of heartrenders for endless spell or both for spellcaster or warlocks. 

 

[ClockworkGeo91]

2 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yes my go-to army to test will look like that (but I guess I will play my 20 Blood Sisters Bloodwrack Shrine army as I planned to drop Morathi for second unit of 20 snakes but Morathi got much better now):

Morathi with Mindrazor 

SlaughterQueen on Cauldron with Heart of Woe (Blessing prayer)

3xHag Queen (Sacrament of Blood, Catechism,Martyr's Sacrifice) 

2x30 Witches (one unit with knives one with bucklers)

30 Sisters of Slaughter

2x5 Heartrenders

1990

that's a lot of bodies, 3 spells a turn, also I can easily drop one hag queen/one unit of heartrenders for endless spell or both for spellcaster or warlocks. 

 

Looks solid, let us know how Morathi fares.

Have you had success with the sisters of slaughter to this point? My preference would have been to take Blood Sisters instead but I guess you'd need to spread your battleline more in that case. Two blobs of Witches will certainly delete most of your enemy supported by the hag queens.

[Bellfree]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

I was more referring to taking this as an opportunity to bring weaker performers in line with the rest of the book. The overall powerlevel is still fine, we might even end up better.

I liked having cheap detachments because it let me take both major buff relics(additional prayer and +1 reroll 1 to cast) I never had much of a use for Amulet of Dark fire as I never ran into that many spell mortals. Human form Morathi got massively better, I agree, but I hate only having one caster.

[DantePQ]

For me Morathi fared great, I've played like 30+ competitive games with DoK with all kind of battalions/army lists but used Morathi in majority of them and she's great, after team tournaments where I went 4 out of 5 wins (all 4 majors with record number of kill points) I wanted to try list without her (2x20 Blood Sisters list) but with all those new rules she got much better (2x 30'' unbids with +1   to unbid, in monster form ability to be nearby units deep into enemy territory to boost them with Command Abilites, extra -1 to hit with shooting in small form)

Sisters of Slaughter are great with taking turns in combat as you can pile-in them as extra activion with enemy having no chance to attacks them, they worked great everytime I used them, sure if you don't have spare points witches are go-to unit, but if you got some spare points they are worth it). 

I got to look through new relics as Crown of Woe is nice (but there could be something better) other option is relic that gives +1 to save (which would boost Cauldron save to 3+ and 5++)  with nerf to DoT and ThunderKroak Amulet of Dark Fire isn't that essential when taking HaggNarr. 

@BellfreeI don't know I am fine with one caster but I might end up taking a Medusa with relic, I don't really care about relics that much as Amulet of Dark Fire was good, and I didn't really needed second prayer (And I would rather take extra Hag Queen for that then Battalion) I could live with Slaughter Queen without relic and MEdusa with Shadow Stone when needed, unless there are some crazy good realm specific relics I don't really care but yes Slaughter Troupe was nice option to have and now it's gone. 

[ClockworkGeo91]

7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I got to look through new relics as Crown of Woe is nice (but there could be something better) other option is relic that gives +1 to save (which would boost Cauldron save to 3+ and 5++)  with nerf to DoT and ThunderKroak Amulet of Dark Fire isn't that essential when taking HaggNarr. 

 

This is always a query I've had, does Cauldron of Blood benefit from it's own shield - i.e. it isn't actuall 5+ but it's 4+ with its own shield?

[DantePQ]

Yep it does benefit from it's own shield

[ClockworkGeo91]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Yep it does benefit from it's own shield

Had to ask a silly question

[Ered]

No it is even confirmed in core rules: "If a unit has an ability that affects friendly units that are within a certain distance of it, then the ability will also affect the unit itself."

[Ered]

15 minutes ago, Ered said:

No it is even confirmed in core rules: "If a unit has an ability that affects friendly units that are within a certain distance of it, then the ability will also affect the unit itself."

I meant: Now

[Scythian]

Anyone heard or seen anything about the points, battleline, etc for our girls?

[DJMoose]

22 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Anyone heard or seen anything about the points, battleline, etc for our girls?

Sadly not yet.  Due to how good battalions are now, I've heard there are some points changes.

[syph0n]

 

6 hours ago, Scythian said:

Anyone heard or seen anything about the points, battleline, etc for our girls?

 

6 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Sadly not yet.  Due to how good battalions are now, I've heard there are some points changes.

Check out the points changes thread on the main forum section. 

 

Battalions have increased, but not the units. Some are more expensive than others. 

[Guest]

I wonder from a gameplay perspecitve:

 

Is there an actual place for Melusai units in a Morathi / WE list? It would be a shame to not field those cool models, but a whole list made out of snakes seems just to much for me . 

And another questions: Is there a general consensus to take blood stalkers over blood sisters or vice versa? Just a general assumption, not focused on any battleplan?

[Lucentia]

Blood sisters are excellent in pretty much any list, Blood Stalkers are quite expensive compared to their low damage output.

I've been running 15 Blood Sisters along with Morathi and Witch Aelves, to begin with just because I needed something that would crack through 2+ re-rollable armour saves and the like, but they are often a stand-out unit in my games.  They're basically just more elite Witch Aelves with less attacks, Catechism can pump their mortal wound output to dangerous levels if you get a little lucky, Mindrazor makes them obscene, doubly so against anything Bravery 8 or less (they will plainly delete Tzaangor blobs from the table, for example.)  You can use the faster Witches as a first wave (I use Hagg Nar, so aiming for a turn 2 charge with Sacrament for the re-rolls) and bring the snakes in next turn to mop up tough targets (Turn 3 so they also get those juicy re-rolls), or against more mobile lists they make a good counter-punch element if anything manages to chew through your Witches.