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Payce

Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

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1 minute ago, BURF1 said:

My question is where you're getting 5+? It's 6+ from blood Cauldron.

"Add 1 to the result if the unit is a Witch Aelf."

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Just now, Payce said:

"Add 1 to the result if the unit is a Witch Aelf."

Ah, missed that, still doesn't help with the character sniping or the can't kill 2+ saves problems.

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1 minute ago, BURF1 said:

Ah, missed that, still doesn't help with the character sniping or the can't kill 2+ saves problems.

But it does help with character sniping, as two of your character get stacking 5+ ward saves, which will decrease incoming damage by 55%.  The Death Hag only gets a 6+.  That's not too shabby imo.  

Dealing with 2+ saves is resolved by doing mortal wounds or high rend.  The Death Hag, Bloodwrack Shrine, Medusa unit and Sisters of Slaughter all have Mortal wounds output.  If you are really concerned about it (over other horde armies), you could drop the Medusa unit for 2 5 packs of Warlocks, which would give you targeted mortal wounds output in Doombolt (1d3-1d6) and Arcane Boly (1d3), in addition to your other options. 

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1 hour ago, Thomas Lyons said:
  • 140     Bloodwrack Sisterhood
  • 200     Cauldron of Blood (General, Witchbrew)
  • 140     Bloodwrack Shrine
  • 60       Death Hag (Either Deathsword or Witchbrew)
  • 270     30 Witch Aelves
  • 270     30 Witch Aelves
  • 360     30 Sisters of Slaughter
  • 360     3 Bloodwrack Medusa
  • 200     Cauldron of Blood (Witchbrew)

This is interesting - I hadn't thought of running a 2K list without Warlocks.

But would it be better to have 60 Witches or 50 Sisters? Also is Sisterhood worth it?.

If you went with 2 units of Sisters instead of Witches and dropped the Bloodwrack Sisterhood you could take 60 Sisters and another Death Hag.

Edited by zedatkinszed

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Just now, zedatkinszed said:

This is interesting. I hadn't thought of running a 2K list without Warlocks. But would if better to have 60 Witches or 50 Sisters? Also is Sisterhood worth it?. If you went with 2 units of Sisters instead of Witches and dropped the Bloodwrack Sisterhood you could take 60 Sisters and another Death Hag.

Witches are going to be better because of the double ward saves at 5+.  We are going to live in a world where seeing 90-120+ bloodletters won't be unusual.  Any competitive army will need a way to deal with that.  The sisters are a specialized unit, a tool, that you'll want to deploy strategically.  I think WE are the better generalist troop.

And yes, the Sisterhood is absolutely worth it.  One drop armies will predominantly be a thing of the past.  Most armies will be 4+ drops.  With sisterhood, you gain a 3 drop army, thus always getting to dictate who goes first.  Likewise, the buff, when it triggers, will be pretty significant on these 30 blocks (and the distance will be easy to maintain with having such large units where you can run a tail back into buff range).

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3 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Witches are going to be better because of the double ward saves at 5+.  We are going to live in a world where seeing 90-120+ bloodletters won't be unusual.  Any competitive army will need a way to deal with that.  The sisters are a specialized unit, a tool, that you'll want to deploy strategically.  I think WE are the better generalist troop.

And yes, the Sisterhood is absolutely worth it.  One drop armies will predominantly be a thing of the past.  Most armies will be 4+ drops.  With sisterhood, you gain a 3 drop army, thus always getting to dictate who goes first.  Likewise, the buff, when it triggers, will be pretty significant on these 30 blocks (and the distance will be easy to maintain with having such large units where you can run a tail back into buff range).

Cool - that's a well reasoned answer. Thanks!

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My own thinking along these lines is

2,000pts

  • 1 Death Hag (witch brew)
  • 2 Cauldrons of Blood (witch brew)
  • 1 Bloodwrack Shrine
  • 2x 30 Witch Aelves
  • 30 Sisters of Slaughter
  • 5 Doomfire Warlocks
  • The Bloodwrack Sisterhood
  • 10 Executioners

1,000pts

  • 1 Death Hag (deathsword)
  • 1 Death Hag (witch brew)
  • 1 Cauldron of Blood (witch brew)
  • 2x 20 Witch Aelves
  • 5 Doomfire Warlocks
  • 1 Bloodwrack Shrine
  • 1 Black Ark Fleetmaster

 

Edited by zedatkinszed
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Damn im tempted to collect them. Two things that stops me incomming elves and fear that gw sooner or later will ditch out old world armies.

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1 hour ago, Entombet said:

Damn im tempted to collect them. Two things that stops me incomming elves and fear that gw sooner or later will ditch out old world armies.

Like they did with the Seraphon, Flesh-Eater Courts, Bonesplitterz and Beastclaw Raiders? ;) 

I honestly wouldn't worry too much. Incoming elves (whenever it may be) will likely be more like Sylvaneth than anything we know from the old world, and the updates for the DoK and Darklings shows a willingness to support kits that are still some of the most awesome they've produced. If you like DoK, go for it. Worrying about what might happen in five years will make most things stale. As a WFB druchii player, I honestly love this update so much. It breathes a tonne of new life into my old models.

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7 minutes ago, Entombet said:

It's GW you can never be sure. Btw where to get spare hags, from we box?.

They come from the Cauldron of Blood Kit.  If you make the CoB, you get a Medusa on foot and an extra Death Hag on foot.  If you make the Bloodwrack Shrine, you get two Death Hags on foot.

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2 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

They come from the Cauldron of Blood Kit.  If you make the CoB, you get a Medusa on foot and an extra Death Hag on foot.  If you make the Bloodwrack Shrine, you get two Death Hags on foot.

Yeah problem could be if you want some on foot.

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Just now, Entombet said:

Yeah problem could be if you want some on foot.

Why?  Buy a couple allies boxes, a couple witches boxes and you're set.  Every time you buy a CoB, you get at least 1 hag on foot.  You'll be swimming in them before too long.

 

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10 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

But it does help with character sniping, as two of your character get stacking 5+ ward saves, which will decrease incoming damage by 55%.  The Death Hag only gets a 6+.  That's not too shabby imo.  

Dealing with 2+ saves is resolved by doing mortal wounds or high rend.  The Death Hag, Bloodwrack Shrine, Medusa unit and Sisters of Slaughter all have Mortal wounds output.  If you are really concerned about it (over other horde armies), you could drop the Medusa unit for 2 5 packs of Warlocks, which would give you targeted mortal wounds output in Doombolt (1d3-1d6) and Arcane Boly (1d3), in addition to your other options. 

I also did not see that the blood cauldron has the witch aelves keyword. Damn, that's ridiculous. You're best bet would be to focus everything you have into one and hope to reduce the range enough that it doesn't effect the other one. (Knight venator would be good for it, get past the 6+ and you force 3+d6 bloodshield saves.) You'd basically have to chaff up the witchelves for 1-2 turns and hope you can sneak enough damage through on the blood cauldrons to neuter them out of the game. Good ****** thing they can't stay battleline and take a hurricanum or they'd be unbelievable.

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8 hours ago, Entombet said:

Damn im tempted to collect them. Two things that stops me incomming elves and fear that gw sooner or later will ditch out old world armies.

What stops me is that 90 with aelves/SoS cost a small fortune...

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3 hours ago, Entombet said:

Ok im reading it right, we unit in range of 2 cauldrons get 2 5+ saves?.

Correct.

24 minutes ago, Nevvermore said:

What stops me is that 90 with aelves/SoS cost a small fortune...

$650-700 retail for a Daughters of Khaine army right now.  That isn't too shabby.

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5 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

$650-700 retail for a Daughters of Khaine army right now.  That isn't too shabby.

Compared to a beastclaw army... which might be €200/300? :S 

Doesn't mean I won't spend it over time :D 

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40 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Compared to a beastclaw army... which might be €200/300? :S 

Doesn't mean I won't spend it over time :D 

It was $140 higher before the allies boxes.

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17 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Witches are going to be better because of the double ward saves at 5+.  We are going to live in a world where seeing 90-120+ bloodletters won't be unusual.  Any competitive army will need a way to deal with that.  The sisters are a specialized unit, a tool, that you'll want to deploy strategically.  I think WE are the better generalist troop.

And yes, the Sisterhood is absolutely worth it.  One drop armies will predominantly be a thing of the past.  Most armies will be 4+ drops.  With sisterhood, you gain a 3 drop army, thus always getting to dictate who goes first.  Likewise, the buff, when it triggers, will be pretty significant on these 30 blocks (and the distance will be easy to maintain with having such large units where you can run a tail back into buff range).

You'll still see 1, 2, and 3 drops armies IMO but fewer and far between.

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1 hour ago, Rhellion said:

You'll still see 1, 2, and 3 drops armies IMO but fewer and far between.

Agreed.  I should have softened my statement to be, "With sisterhood, you gain a 3 drop army, thus often getting to dictate who goes first."

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22 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

It was $140 higher before the allies boxes.

I've been tinkering around with multiple set-ups and another way of looking at things is a list like this: 

  • Blood Cult Alliance 2000pts
    • Sisterhood Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
      • 1 Death hag (Deathsword)
      • 20 Witch Aelves
      • 20 Witch Aelves
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 1 Blood wrack shrine
    • Outside Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
      • 2 Death hags (witch brew)
    • Allies
      • 20 Executioners

This would cost 465 €415 today which is $550 $490. Not cheap but maybe it's probably cheaper in terms of time (painting Witches is hard) & money than the other lists. However, maybe it lacks punch with blocks of 20 Witches instead of 30.

Edited by zedatkinszed

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6 hours ago, zedatkinszed said:

I've been tinkering around with multiple set-ups and another way of looking at things is a list like this: 

  • Blood Cult Alliance 2000pts
    • Sisterhood Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
      • 1 Death hag (Deathsword)
      • 20 Witch Aelves
      • 20 Witch Aelves
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 1 Blood wrack shrine
    • Outside Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
      • 2 Death hags (witch brew)
    • Allies
      • 20 Executioners

This would cost 465 today which is $550. Not cheap but maybe it's probably cheaper in terms of time (painting Witches is hard) & money than the other lists. However, maybe it lacks punch with blocks of 20 Witches instead of 30.

I like where your head's at.  I'm a big fan of the Executioners and think they bring an interesting element to the table.  Let me offer a variant on your list that you might appreciate:

  • Blood Cult Alliance 2000pts
    • Sisterhood Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
      • 1 Death hag (Deathsword)
      • 30 Witch Aelves
      • 30 Witch Aelves
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 5 Warlocks
      • 1 Bloodwrack Medusa
    • Outside Battalion
      • 1 Cauldron (witch brew)
    • Allies
      • 10 Executioners
      • 10 Executioners

If you don't mind paying a little bit more, this list lowers your drops by 1, down to 4 and splits that pack of 20 Executioners into more usable units (as they gain nothing from being dropped as one unit, while they gain the ability to split up to different objectives this way).  The Bloodwrack shrine was downgraded to a Medusa in exchange for upgrading the two blocks of 20 Witch Elves up to 30 each.  While this may look like a bad thing for the Medusa, it is actually a huge boon in matched play as you'll gain mobility (high movement, smaller base) while being able to hide behind terrain and minimize being snipe off the table.  This force solves some of the mortal wounds issues (through both the warlocks and the Executioners), although it has no response to Lord Kroak on a Balewind.

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The one I was toying with was:

3 Cauldron of Blood with 2 witchbrew

Hag witchbrew

Morathi

3x30 Witch Aelves

10 Doomfire

Alternate is pulling one Cauldron and putting in a unit of Vanguard Raptors or similar long range hit damage unit.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

The one I was toying with was:

3 Cauldron of Blood with 2 witchbrew

Hag witchbrew

Morathi

3x30 Witch Aelves

10 Doomfire

Alternate is pulling one Cauldron and putting in a unit of Vanguard Raptors or similar long range hit damage unit.

 

 

Marathi doesn't have the right keyword to be an ally.

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