Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Richelieu]

15 minutes ago, The Traitor said:

Based on the models that we have now DoK are one of the most expensive factions that GW sells, and I don't have my hopes too high on that changing... We're all going to buy the half naked hot chicks which are literally high on BLOOD anyways, so GW can set the price as high as they want...

To be fair...we also buy models of half naked ogors, 75% naked Orruks, 90% naked dwarves and 95% naked rotting demons, so it's not like anyone can claim sexism when our ladies are also wearing hardly any clothing. 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I keep stalking ebay looking for one of those at a reasonable price. I never played dark elves in fantasy because lots of other people always had them so I missed out on all these cool models.

I did make one out of a metal Bret Pegasus and a sorceress from the SoBD kit but I still want the original.

Looking very good!

Some of those old models are indeed crazy difficult to get on the down low. I just got the horsey archaon for €25,- after a year long search/on the look out. 

I'm willing to bet that, DoK will be amazing, as all new armies are, then losing a bit in popularity, getting a nerf in General's handbook 2018 or 2019 and then people will be selling whole armies on ebay. On a local second hand platform I saw the first Kahadron armies 2 days after General's Handbook 2017, haha. 

[DantePQ]

I doubt it GH was in my opinion poorly written and look at DoT they weren't nerfed even in new FAQ. 

And KO are crazy strong army even with nerfs. Not to mention that DoK will have much more selection of units. 

Anyway I am Aelf player and will play them or any new Aelf army. I have been playing HE exclusively since 5ed WFB without caring much how bad or good they were. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

3 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Anyway I am Aelf player and will play them or any new Aelf army. I have been playing HE exclusively since 5ed WFB without caring much how bad or good they were. 

Thats a great attitude in my opinion. I can never quite bring myself to go for an "optimised" list because the enjoyment I get from playing games with a collection of the models I like most, organised in what i think is a thematic army, always outweighs my desire to win all my games.

 

[DantePQ]

I've never played any kind of mixed army - WFB or Wh40k. In Aos I've been playing pure Sylvaneth and know I am sure, I will be playing pure DoK (ok maybe some Darkling Covens as allies but only becasue they fit) 

[Edgecoc]

I was thinking Darkshards would make for good allies, until I can get some of the medusae. I also have had 10 of them sitting around since AoS started.

[DantePQ]

Darkshards are great minis but I doubt they will work good outside Darkling Covens. But for sure they will look great next to DoK  

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Darkshards are great minis but I doubt they will work good outside Darkling Covens. But for sure they will look great next to DoK  

Yep, the bonus +1 to hit for 20+ models is key to their output, but it's tough to achieve without the specific allegiance bonus.

[DantePQ]

I would love some kind of mechanic between Dakling Covens and Daughters of Khaine as it could work greateven lorewise. I am almost 100% sure it won't happen but it would be super cool. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

5 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I would love some kind of mechanic between Dakling Covens and Daughters of Khaine as it could work greateven lorewise. I am almost 100% sure it won't happen but it would be super cool. 

Lore-wise, I don't see it working.  In AoS, the coven-master bewitches her army for personal protection, and the DoK death hags lead them forward in the name of Khaine the dead god for blood offerings.  On is led by manipulative and self-serving sorceresses, and the other is a faction of religious fanatics.

[zedatkinszed]

21 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I agree but to have a competitive 2000 points army you need much less. 

Yes but the number of tourney players vs the number of club players is very different. Honestly I haven't played in a big AOS tourney in my country because there's only been one so far. 

Not everyone will be buying for this. And TBH we're still in the dark as regards set-up, battalions, rules, new points, any changes to allies so it's way too early to really say what a list wil look like. Plus getting a properly competitive list a 2K that utilizes the full potential of the army with Morathi looks like a stretch. At current points this is 1530:

• 1x Cauldron Of Blood 
• 2x Death Hags 
• 2 x Bloodwrack Shrines
• 5 x Doomfire Warlocks
• 30 x Sisters Of Slaughter
• 30 x Witch Aelves
• Battalion

Battalions are all in the 100-120 range so that price wont change even if we get better battalions (I'm sure we will). But Morathi is liable to be around 400-500 (could be worse). Alarielle is 600. Nagash is 800. Manfred and Neferta around 400. The Celestant Prime is around 300 as  are Brokk from the KO, the Sorceress on a Black dragon and the Order Serpentis Dreadlord.

That's 2K (or more) without any Gorgons or Harpies. So basically Either GW will drop the points for WAs and SoS (unlikely) or we're going to be making hard choices about what to exclude. If that's the case buy the book first  

19 hours ago, The Traitor said:

Based on the models that we have now DoK are one of the most expensive factions that GW sells, and I don't have my hopes too high on that changing... We're all going to buy the half naked hot chicks which are literally high on BLOOD anyways, so GW can set the price as high as they want...

Yup at this point I plan on collecting this army and playing it for fun and not as a match play contender for at least a year. I love Morathi and the DoK. This is my dream force but with family, bills etc it'll take me 1-2 years to buy a full on army

 

[zedatkinszed]

5 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Lore-wise, I don't see it working.  In AoS, the coven-master bewitches her army for personal protection, and the DoK death hags lead them forward in the name of Khaine the dead god for blood offerings.  On is led by manipulative and self-serving sorceresses, and the other is a faction of religious fanatics.

Have to agree on this plus. Over the years I've learned not to trust GW completely so I'm expecting shenanigans with the allies once the DoK are updated. I hope it doesn't happen but I won't be planning anything allies wise until I have it in black and white from GW that it's possible to ally certain units with the updated faction.

[DantePQ]

@zedatkinszed I got what you're saying I was only writing from competitve perspective I think as always army will  be tight on points. I think if SoS didn't get serious point drop taking more then 10 would be just bad. After all they're very fragile to shooting, expensive, melee unit with 1damage, average number of attacks and no rend. 10 in the cover to bunker on objective with possible mystic shield is the only role I can see for that without point drop/rules change. 

[jazzy128]

So, to start another topic. Do you think the Shadow blades are going to be thrown into DoK? Their name alludes to them living in the shadow realm, and I think it’s one of those tiny factions that GW made to potentially expand later, but as the story has progressed seems unlikely to ever get their own tome.

Maybe it’s just me dreaming of better Dark Rider warscrolls, but I don’t think it’s impossible that the DoK would have mercenary assassins and scouts.

Also, I watched this Morathi spoiler yesterday and got incredibly psyched!

 

[DantePQ]

I think folding Shadowblades into DoK makes sence, but I doubt it will happen. Maybe Tenebrael will be included. 

[Kaleun]

46 minutes ago, jazzy128 said:

So, to start another topic. Do you think the Shadow blades are going to be thrown into DoK? Their name alludes to them living in the shadow realm, and I think it’s one of those tiny factions that GW made to potentially expand later, but as the story has progressed seems unlikely to ever get their own tome.

Maybe it’s just me dreaming of better Dark Rider warscrolls, but I don’t think it’s impossible that the DoK would have mercenary assassins and scouts.

Also, I watched this Morathi spoiler yesterday and got incredibly psyched!

 

Naaa. Not gonna happen. Shadowblades are a different faction now. After all the actual Generals Handbook is still the basis.

 

Cool Video though. Looks like Morathi. I guess Morathi would use her maybe-giantsnakeform.

[Twitch of Izalith]

1 hour ago, jazzy128 said:

So, to start another topic. Do you think the Shadow blades are going to be thrown into DoK?

I thought so at first but not any more. They will already have more units than some factions with the new releases. Having said that. My standard list has a neat 400 points of assassin + 2 units of dark riders + a DC sorceresss at the moment and they fit really well. 

I think the Shadowblades are likely to remain a mostly support faction.

I think Tenebrael Shard is even less likely - He looks like some sort of sea themed elf to me.

Characters are the biggest missing element from what we know so far though. They Currently only have 2 Death Hag Models and The Bloodwrack Medusa is likely to become a character + Morathi. Thats not much when you think there are 18 in the nurgle book!

Hopefully there are a couple more to come

 

[DantePQ]

@Twitch of Izalith as you mentioned we lack leaders so far that's why I think Tenebrael could be re-packed. Lorewise Assassins used to be raised by Witch Elves so Tenebrael could be such characters and I think he look perfectly in line with Witches, Gorgons, Harpies - I guess Mistweaver doesn't fit as she is all clad in armour/cloth. 

I think we could see 

Medusa as a hero maybe with melee option and spellcasting option

Sorceress of some kind (repack) 

Tenebrael as Assassin 

or brand new sculpt for some kind of spellcasting hero. 

Morathi, Death Hag, Medusa, Tenebrael, new hero/Sorceress sounds fine. 

But  it's pure specualtion it's just my wild guess they we should have 4-5 hero choices. As Sylvaneth which seems to be similar size wise release has : Alarielle, TLA, Durthu, Branchwraight, Branchwych, Drycha. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I think that the cauldron and the shrine will also be leader choices/ hero keyword and they could potentially give the two different death hags on foot different abilities instead of just the equipment choice - effectively making 2 different death hag on foot characters. That would leave us with 2 medusa characters, 3 death hag characters and Morathi without any new models. 6 in total. Its not ideal when 2 of them will be the same sculpt but standing on a shrine/cauldron so I really hope there will be a couple of new ones on the way. The designers have got to run out of ideas for new Stormcast heroes at some point and move on to something else!!

The only thing that links the Tenebrael Shard is that he has witch elf hair. The tentacles on the base and the seaweed like sash just don't fit with the rest of the DoK aesthetic from my point of view. There's been rumours of some kind of sea elf faction for a while and it seems logical to me that he will show up with them.

 

[DantePQ]

I don't know. We can't have endless Aelves factions going forward. I guess we will eventually get Shadowkin - appers to be Malerion faction which could be those "sea Aelves" and Light Aelves of Tyrion&Teclis. Maybe some kind of big BT to play with older kits like BT Death (doubt it). GW must narrow down factions so when new edition/cycle begins. With faction being refreshed we can't have so many factions. 

And it is strongly implied in WH:Q fluff that Shard and Saih are different factions but they work together when needed and neither of them is good - so it makes logical sense that one of them is Morathi faction and other Malerion's as neither of them fits "Light Aelves". 

As I said 3 Aelven Factions going forward is more then enough and if GW want to add another there is possibly Araloth kingdom floating somewhere. 

What's more neither of them (WHQ heroes)  fits with any other known Aelf faction(unless Shadowblades get some kind of refresh but I doubt it as they have 1/2 of a kit and one hero). Tenebrael could fit into DoK as that thing he is on could part of Slaanesh deamon or Morathi faction lives near such creatures. 

 

[zedatkinszed]

3 hours ago, DantePQ said:

@Twitch of Izalith as you mentioned we lack leaders so far that's why I think Tenebrael could be re-packed. Lorewise Assassins used to be raised by Witch Elves so Tenebrael could be such characters and I think he look perfectly in line with Witches, Gorgons, Harpies - I guess Mistweaver doesn't fit as she is all clad in armour/cloth. 

I think we could see 

Medusa as a hero maybe with melee option and spellcasting option

Sorceress of some kind (repack) 

Tenebrael as Assassin 

or brand new sculpt for some kind of spellcasting hero. 

Morathi, Death Hag, Medusa, Tenebrael, new hero/Sorceress sounds fine. 

But  it's pure specualtion it's just my wild guess they we should have 4-5 hero choices. As Sylvaneth which seems to be similar size wise release has : Alarielle, TLA, Durthu, Branchwraight, Branchwych, Drycha. 

Honestly I expect ZERO wizard keyword models except Morathi. "Priests" is what DoK are all about. Religious fanatics etc. So I expect something along the lines of what Twitch of Izalith is saying.

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I think that the cauldron and the shrine will also be leader choices/ hero keyword and they could potentially give the two different death hags on foot different abilities instead of just the equipment choice - effectively making 2 different death hag on foot characters. That would leave us with 2 medusa characters, 3 death hag characters and Morathi without any new models. 6 in total. Its not ideal when 2 of them will be the same sculpt but standing on a shrine/cauldron so I really hope there will be a couple of new ones on the way. The designers have got to run out of ideas for new Stormcast heroes at some point and move on to something else!!

The only thing that links the Tenebrael Shard is that he has witch elf hair. The tentacles on the base and the seaweed like sash just don't fit with the rest of the DoK aesthetic from my point of view. There's been rumours of some kind of sea elf faction for a while and it seems logical to me that he will show up with them.

I agree here - Tenebrael Shard and Mistweaver are Cluthu/Shadowkin/Malerion Aelfs. I would love to be wrong on this but all the evidence points in a direction other than Morathi. 

[DantePQ]

But they aren't one faction so unless we're getting two more dark elvish factions in the future which isn't very likely one of Quest heroes should be with Morathi. That would make perfect  sense. 

I doubt we are getting only prayers as GW loves to go with multiple lores etc nowadays. So I guess we could go with magic lore and prayers list. 

Anyway we need more leaders options almost every BT have minimum 5 so far we have 3 - Meduse/gorgon.,Morathi and Death Hag. Tenebrael and somekind of spellcastee makes sense. But it's all about wild guesses at the moment but it's nice to speculate a little from time to time. 

[Nutty]

Between the headdress and the gladiatorial looking gauntlets the shade wouldn't look out of place in a DoK army.

It is going to be interesting to see what kind of heroes come along with the battletome, Morathi is bound to keep some unusual company 

[Lucentia]

Most of the AoS faction releases have come with a couple of clampack heroes, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we might see some more stuff, though they could go the Lord of Afflictions route and have a hero option in the lamia/harpy box I guess.

Looking at the teaser video again I did note that the lamia models seem to be mostly in scale with the Witch Aelves, which is to say their heads/torsos look to be about the same size, and they're about the same height when you factor in the Witch Aelves jumping rocks, so I think we might see the snake elves in a potential box of five, they certainly seem smaller than, say, the Tomb King snake skeletons, which were a three per box deal.

[DantePQ]

Maybe you're right but it's still too few hero choice (judging from other releases). That's why Tenebrael is still an sound option.