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Sadysaneto

GHB17 - massive regiments. Horde armies rejoice.

284 posts in this topic

tolstedt    108
1 hour ago, Auticus said:

If you have a counter argument to anything I've posted, please feel free to post it.  Thats why we have discussion forums.  Telling people to shut up or suggesting they stop posting and quit because they don't agree with you defeats the point of a discussion forum.  

I believe he was making a tone argument.

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Ridiculous Zombies are already broken. This is a big mistake. People were asking for a point increase on units that get better with numbers.Deathless minions better be scraped .

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Freejack02    28
48 minutes ago, Galas said:

0000603_dark-ages-skirmish-movement-tray

I see these suggested quite a bit, but they really don't work once you get into melee. Enemy units cannot get in b2b with any models within the movement tray - then it becomes a painstaking affair to remove each and every one and try to get them in the position they were. What if you need to move around scenery? What if there's elevated/uneven terrain? They are a lazy band-aid solution to the issue. 

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David Griffin    105

I have to admit I'm surprised to see all the negativity here. We've already seen the new points for the Deathlords faction, so it's safe to assume there will be other point adjustments throughout the other factions. Rather than pointing to the new tiered point system for hordes and calling it broken, why don't we wait until we see the bigger picture?

Anything that encourages numerous ways to play and empowers players to make novel decisions from a list building perspective is a good thing in my book.

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Sadysaneto    196
17 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

I see these suggested quite a bit, but they really don't work once you get into melee. Enemy units cannot get in b2b with any models within the movement tray - then it becomes a painstaking affair to remove each and every one and try to get them in the position they were. What if you need to move around scenery? What if there's elevated/uneven terrain? They are a lazy band-aid solution to the issue. 

 

trays.jpg

tray2.jpg

tray3.jpg

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Carnelian    410

For those being negative, at least wait until you have read the whole of the new ghb and played a few games with it before getting upset!

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Freejack02    28

@Sadysaneto  That's much better, but still won't solve the terrain issue. It would likely save enough time and headache to be worthwhile for both parties. 

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Galas    697

The Horus Heresy game has this thing of making a unit bigger cheaper than making smaller units, to combat MSU. Bigger units pay by their vulnerability to morale. So it isn't like theres no drawbacks. Actually I think it will be better if they remove the bonuses for making units bigger (So you can take 10 skeletons without feeling "cheated" or "stupid"), but with the new rule of making bigger units cheaper (So 30 skeletons are cheaper than 10-10-10 because htey are more vulnerable to morale and are much less flexible in how much places they can be in the board) 

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someone2040    453

I can't say I'm initially a fan. I echo many other peoples concerns, that there are a lot of units that as they get bigger, they get 'free' benefits, and making them cheaper will only double dip into the advantage of larger units. Also concerned that it may slow down the game or drive people into large model count armies again, something I was pretty thankful not to be doing in AoS.

 

There are definitely weaknesses as well, in the fact that larger units are less mobile, take up more space, harder to get through terrain, and generally are battleline units, something that you don't necessarily want to be taking a ton of. For example, if you take 3 units of 40 Skeletons, that's going to be almost half your army.

 

So I'm going to sit back and wait and see before making a final verdict.

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BURF1    109
5 hours ago, Auticus said:

Anything that gets free bonuses is by definition of the word over powered because their cost is less than it should be.

 

Which brilliantly ignores the fact that things are never costed correctly AND that units power almost never scales linearly despite points doing so.

 

An 80pt unit of skeletons has a pretty good shot at beating any 80 point unit. A 320pt unit of skeletons is probably not going to beat arkhan and stands 0 chance of beating a LCOD+ Lord Catellant.

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LJ26    33

This thread got really ridiculous fast lol, never have I heard so much fear for SKELETONS! Most people are complaining about the POTENTIAL of hard lists that will run a million skeletons in a competitive tournament that most people will never attend. If theres a guy running some crazy unfun list at your club/store TELL Him. Be a real person and not just a internet complainer. 

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PJetski    170

Anti-horde units already exist and they are currently without purpose because nobody is playing hordes

Everything will be fine

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AverageBoss    86

So, 30 man Tzaangor and Blood Letter bomb units are going to be cheaper too. That does not seem right.

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daedalus81    692
9 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

So, 30 man Tzaangor and Blood Letter bomb units are going to be cheaper too. That does not seem right.

Tzaangors don't get better with size.  They clearly also selected specific units to receive this benefit.  I wouldn't worry about it right now.

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chord    411

I never played WFB but  did watch battle reports from it when I started AOS.  Those giant armies and movement trays looked horrible IMO.  AoS has such a dynamic feel to it I fear could get lost.

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Freejack02    28
31 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

Tzaangors don't get better with size.

They get +1 attack per model for every 9 of them, up to a max of +3 extra... so they absolutely do get better with size. 

Edited by Freejack02
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Sleboda    1,060
4 hours ago, Auticus said:

If a model has X attacks and can take Y damage then it should cost in the same ballpark as another model that has X attacks and can take Y damage barring some gross synergy bonuses that one may have that the other doesn't.

I think this may be the thing you have said with which I most disagree.

It's a gross oversimplification of points and the game in general.  I mean, like, comically so.

Man, sorry, I really don't mean to offend, cuz I actually like ya and like forum-ing with you, but yowza.

 

Forum-impossible-added-quote: " There are about 500 skeletons in total in my cases now."

Sing it, brother! Skeletons FTW!

Edited by Sleboda
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Thomas Lyons    885
5 hours ago, David Griffin said:

I have to admit I'm surprised to see all the negativity here.

Its surprising isn't it?  And I'm not even the one bringing the negativity! ;-)

I actually love these changes.  More bodies present an excellent counter to various aspects that dominate the current meta (alpha strikes and mortal wound output).  If people are worried about fighting difficult lists...let me let you in on a little secret...your Beastclaw snowball hailstorms and bloodletter bombs weren't fun either.  Get over it, find an appropriate army for the meta, and adapt.

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Sheriff    330
10 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

More bodies present an excellent counter to various aspects that dominate the current meta (alpha strikes and mortal wound output). 

My list of 80 mortal-striking grot spider riders :D

Edited by Sheriff

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1st gaunt will be epic and im happy about whis
2nd if this rule will apply to all armies free people handgunners with piper will be best battleline unit in game in my opinion ofc with some buffs to make to hit stat like 2/3 + what is easy and with piper counter charge shooting with 30 man 3/4/-1/1dmg can make em epic hard to atack in normal way

Wysłane z mojego SM-G928F przy użyciu Tapatalka

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shadowgra    116

I think it won't apply to everything but only to those units that are meant to be hordes: zombies, skeletons, ghouls, marauders, vulkite, clanrats, grots and so on.

Surely won't apply to skullreapers for example

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RuneBrush    1,253

Interesting to see everybody's comments on this.  I'm of two minds.  On the one hand it's great that running some units at maximum size is going to be more points effective, there's something chilling about facing a proper horde army.  On the other hand, I don't think AoS lends itself to large units of models, it can slow a game down considerably and was something I was glad got left behind in WFB.  I also worry that many units get really quite pokey at maximum size - however we'll need to wait until the new handbook drops before seeing how this actually impacts the game.

One thing is we also don't know what kind of points reduction we're talking about - it could be at maximum size they cost 10 or 20 points less ;)

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stato    167

People just need to make sure they are playing with enough and varied terrain.  Cheap giant blobs are great on a open field, less so when they are channelled through a funnel or blocked on one side. 3 attacks per skeleton is still dangerous but less so if they can only hit with 8-10 rather than wrap round you with 20.

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