Method Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 To all you Ironjawz veterans... I have the Ironfist Battalion giving the units D6" movement in the Hero Phase. I also have Rampaging Destroyer Battletrait, giving units D6" movement in the Hero Phase. Does this give the units 2D6" movement? Is this stacking? What does happen if I have a Warlortd with Ravager? Does this give +2 to each dice or to the total af the 2 dices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The Ironfist D6" happens if you have the designated "big boss" of the formation still alive (so one of the Brute or goregruntas champions) the Destruction d6" happens if the unit is within 6" of a character the ravager +2 happens to the destruction d6" if the character is also your general so max would be 2d6 +2" pretty sweet huh! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKennyThing Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 It is very powerful, though almost every player knows what's coming when you set up your army. It has been hugely effective for me in the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 @Method, welcome to Ironjawz!! My man @Sangfroid has laid it out nicely for you there. Just remember that you should be rolling Rampaging Destroyers and the Ironfist move separately as opposed to rolling 2D6 (+2 if your Ravager General is within 6"). This is because knowing the total sum could impact where you move them, whereas rolling one then moving the unit before rolling the next may force you to make some tactical decisions or risks. Sometimes it won't matter and you can tell your opponent that you are going to be moving straight forward the maximum rolled whatever. Usually people don't mind this as it speeds things along. Also note that there are no rules regarding ordering (a more recent FAQ confirmed this in reference to Dark Aelf Assassins). Just remember that the Rampaging Destroyers requirement (6" of a Leader) is dynamic so careful ordering is required to maximise the amount of moves you're getting. You can do fun stuff like Ironfist move a unit towards a Leader, then Rampaging Destroyer said Leader back towards the unit and if you've made it to within 6" you can then trigger Rampaging Destroyers on the unit as well! Hopefully I've not made that sound too complicated, but in all honesty there is a lot more complexity to it than some people realise. It's not just a case of rolling 2D6 and moving your army in a straight line forwards. Mastering the hero phase movements is key to higher level Ironjawz play. Of course, all this may become somewhat irrelevant if The General's Handbook 2017 removes/changes Rampaging Destroyers!! Have fun, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 @Sangfroid thx for clearing this up!!! @Chris Tomlin thx for answering. Read you're post about you're Ironjaws and you made me a fan. Learning a lot reading it. Well I guess its all in playing iIronfist to get the hang of it, I was just wondering if its really legit that I can make 2 moves, before really moving ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 more question @Chris Tomlin Reading you're post you use up to 20 brutes, why would you pick them over Gore Gruntas? Those are faster, have more attacks, better bravery and more wounds (per model)... And those models are gorgeous ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Method said: 1 more question @Chris Tomlin Reading you're post you use up to 20 brutes, why would you pick them over Gore Gruntas? Those are faster, have more attacks, better bravery and more wounds (per model)... And those models are gorgeous ;-) I use 20 brutes and only 3 gruntas in my army. I don't really care for gruntas atm as their ability to cause Mortal wound on the charge forces me to actually keep my gruntas more than 7" away from the enemy unit I wish to charge, (I believe the minimum range is 8" to cause MW on charge?). As 7" charge is statistically what you'd charge it is less likely to make the charge than if 7 or lower: meaning I would risk not getting the charge at all to get the ability of causing mortal wounds. The brutes have Gore Choppa which causes D3 wounds should the blow go through the armor save. The unit can also have Boss Klaw and Smasha, which are BRUTAL if used in synergy with Warchanter or Bellowing Tyrant (or both) as they cause D3 wounds and 2 wounds each per attack. Compared to Gruntas who has speed, more wounds per model, its not really my priority. The brutes with IF battalion and a tag along hero to give them Ravager makes them super fast still. 2xD6" + 4 + 2xD6 charge = 7 + 4 + 7 = 18" average move + charge. That's the same as a monster moving 11" + 2xD6 charge. The gruntas have 3 attacks from choppas which has -1 rend but only damage one without the option to kit your leader with anything fun, they also have pigs that do 4 attacks each, but no rend and only one damage. Pigs also half their attacks twice (4+ hit&wound), which means on 3 gruntas you'll wound 3 no rend dmg one for your opponent to take saves on. It's not that great. A 5 man group of brutes do 3 (or 4) attacks each, which is 15 (20) dice 3+, 3+ including, but some of those attacks hit on 4+ but cause more wounds in the end. Everything is -1 rend. I favor brutes for this reason, but mostly because I'm not super impressed with the grunta models and I had to re-sculpt the entire snout of the "pig" to make it just that... a pig. You can run some more math to get more accurate numbers, I just wanted to give a brief insight into how more attacks doesn't simply generate more wounds in the end. It really depends on what you hit against and how well you hit and wound. I hope that helps, perhaps @Chris Tomlin has a more accurate or better way to think about it. He's more routine(d) with IJ than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, Method said: @Chris Tomlin thx for answering. Read you're post about you're Ironjaws and you made me a fan. Learning a lot reading it. Well I guess its all in playing iIronfist to get the hang of it, I was just wondering if its really legit that I can make 2 moves, before really moving ;-) Hey @Method, thanks so much, that's awesome! Really glad you've enjoyed my thread. Make the most of all the extra movement whilst you can and have fun with it, just in case GH2017 takes it away! 18 minutes ago, Method said: 1 more question @Chris Tomlin Reading you're post you use up to 20 brutes, why would you pick them over Gore Gruntas? Those are faster, have more attacks, better bravery and more wounds (per model)... And those models are gorgeous ;-) Simply put; damage output. Gore-gruntas deal no way near as much damage as Brutes even if you just compare 5 Brutes to 3 Gore-gruntas with choppas, then when you factor in the Boss with his Klaw and Smasha as well as the Gore-choppas you really have a discrepancy. This isn't even to mention the rerolls available to Brutes for the proximity of a Megaboss or better still "Duff up da big fings!". But you are right, the Gore-gruntas are lovely models and do have more utility than I once gave them credit for. I just wish the had the same weapon and reroll options as their unmounted Brute brothers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Good response @Lysandestolpe, sorry you must of posted it at the same time as mine. Your analysis is pretty thorough, just one point to note regarding Gore-gruntas; 3 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said: I don't really care for gruntas atm as their ability to cause Mortal wound on the charge forces me to actually keep my gruntas more than 7" away from the enemy unit I wish to charge, (I believe the minimum range is 8" to cause MW on charge?). As 7" charge is statistically what you'd charge it is less likely to make the charge than if 7 or lower: meaning I would risk not getting the charge at all to get the ability of causing mortal wounds. The rule is much more wonky (feel free to change the 'o' for an 'a' there!!) than that I'm afraid! You need to be 8" or more away from the nearest enemy unit (not just the enemy you wish to charge) and make a successful charge. It's really unfortunate. I wish it was just that if you rolled 8+ on their charge you got the bonus. Even on the times you do pull it off, the 4+ to hit and wound followed by the lack of Rend makes it likely you will not squeeze through many of those juicy D3s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 @Lysandestolpe thats a great sum up, cleared up a lot. I was just looking at attacks, not damage or Rending. As said newbie here ;-) Thx for replying all, great help here !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: You need to be 8" or more away from the nearest enemy unit ( So a big unit of these is not going to work at all. I was thinking of taking a unit of 6 of these but I think I invest more in Brutes... @Chris Tomlin taking 2x5 and 1x10 brutes is because..??? more units so more flexibel? Why not 2x10 Brutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The 2D6" in the hero phase is awesome unless your Mawkrusha has a tendency to roll sets of 1s and dribble forward 2" on a regular basis..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, Method said: @Lysandestolpe thats a great sum up, cleared up a lot. I was just looking at attacks, not damage or Rending. As said newbie here ;-) Thx for replying all, great help here !!! Don't forget the rerolls, they really help to rack up that damage! 26 minutes ago, Method said: So a big unit of these is not going to work at all. I was thinking of taking a unit of 6 of these but I think I invest more in Brutes... @Chris Tomlin taking 2x5 and 1x10 brutes is because..??? more units so more flexibel? Why not 2x10 Brutes? In your previous post you referenced the Brutes inferior bravery. This is one of the main reasons against the larger units. They are a lot of points and every single Brute you lose really hurts. We use Inspiring Presence to mitigate this on our larger units of Brutes, but obviously this can only be on one unit at any given time. What will tend to happen is the other unit gets picked on to the point a failed Battlestock test could finish them off. I have tested this at a Tournament level with 30 Brutes (2x 10 and 2x 5) in an army!!. Obviously Battleshock is a problem to smaller units as well, but our invest isn't as great in those units. Also, maximising Bosses is certainly worthwhile! Having multiple smaller units can be helpful in objective based games where you need to control various points on the board as well. Units of 6 Gore-gruntas definitely have some usage. I found some measure of success with them at the beginning of the year outside of tournaments (didn't have the models painted - will do so next week). However I have opted to run with 2x3 for a Tournament next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: Don't forget the rerolls, they really help to rack up that damage! In your previous post you referenced the Brutes inferior bravery. This is one of the main reasons against the larger units. They are a lot of points and every single Brute you lose really hurts. We use Inspiring Presence to mitigate this on our larger units of Brutes, but obviously this can only be on one unit at any given time. What will tend to happen is the other unit gets picked on to the point a failed Battlestock test could finish them off. I have tested this at a Tournament level with 30 Brutes (2x 10 and 2x 5) in an army!!. Obviously Battleshock is a problem to smaller units as well, but our invest isn't as great in those units. Also, maximising Bosses is certainly worthwhile! Having multiple smaller units can be helpful in objective based games where you need to control various points on the board as well. Units of 6 Gore-gruntas definitely have some usage. I found some measure of success with them at the beginning of the year outside of tournaments (didn't have the models painted - will do so next week). However I have opted to run with 2x3 for a Tournament next weekend. Yeah, the re-roll against multi (4?) or more wound models is off the F****** chain.... I've had 5 man units of brutes devour Bloodthirsters, dragons, etc that are at least twice their cost in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Lysandestolpe said: Yeah, the re-roll against multi (4?) or more wound models is off the F****** chain.... I've had 5 man units of brutes devour Bloodthirsters, dragons, etc that are at least twice their cost in points. Agreed. I've had 5 Brutes with a Warchanter buff kill an unwounded Bloodthirster in one round before. They will consistently perform well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 For new collectors of IJ I think that it is worth mentioning that GHB2 should be out "soon" and that Gore Gruntas recently received a pretty large points discount under the Skirmish system. I think that everyone collecting right now should look to the rule of cool as no one knows where the updated points will leave us anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 @Warboss Gorbolg Till now I only bought the Warboss, starting box and a box of brutes. I planned to paint those first and wait for GH2 for further purchases.. Then I will wait till you veteran players are done with reading it and start discussing it. Then I will make my next purchase, hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 its a good idea. You have more or less one of each existing unit. That's a great start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 First test miniature almost done.. Not such a great painter like most of you here. I'm more of an gaming painter, not showcase painter ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 @Method - That looks really good man!! You've been selling yourself short. Great work on getting the bright colours nailed so well. Did you follow the @Mengel Miniatures guide? Looking forward to seeing him finished and based! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohojoe Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 First test miniature almost done.. Not such a great painter like most of you here. I'm more of an gaming painter, not showcase painter ;-) Looking really good bud, looking forward to seeing the rest of your minis! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 35 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: @Method - That looks really good man!! Thx you!! Not the same dark colours as your's but Orcs are Orcs right ;-) 36 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: Did you follow the @Mengel Miniatures guide? Yes I did, its a great tutorial. Its a great way to paint yellow armour so easy. 19 minutes ago, Mohojoe said: Looking really good bud, looking forward to seeing the rest of your minis! Thx you, hope to make some more pictures soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titcher Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Well done with that miniature. I always find yellow a pain to paint but yours look amazing. Can't wait to see more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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