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Empire / Freemen - What happened?!?!


Major

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With the new GHB coming out soon, we're likely getting allegiance abilities/traits/artefacts for Free People, so that could change things up a bit. I've been relying pretty heavily on the Celestial Hurricanum and I've been known to sprinkle in a variety of other things that are no longer keyworded with the Free People. I'm hoping that what we get for allegiance abilities makes it worth it to just stay with a Free People allegiance, but it will force me to change up my lists.

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I play Mixed Order that is mainly Freeguild but I don't play too competitivley because I paint what I want rather than what I should!

If I could magic some models out of thin air I would go for as many Crossbowmen as I could. I feel they are the hidden gem of the Freeguild (although maybe not as good as Quallerers as they have no way to stack rend on them).

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5 hours ago, Paul Conti said:

*snip*

I'm just about to paint my CH I really hope its still good/ i can still use it haha , I kinda feel like they should mix them together (IWA, CA, FG, DS) like the old Empire books but im not sure familiar what aligns with the new lore but it felt good having them as bros

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14 hours ago, Paul Conti said:

With the new GHB coming out soon, we're likely getting allegiance abilities/traits/artefacts for Free People, so that could change things up a bit. I've been relying pretty heavily on the Celestial Hurricanum and I've been known to sprinkle in a variety of other things that are no longer keyworded with the Free People. I'm hoping that what we get for allegiance abilities makes it worth it to just stay with a Free People allegiance, but it will force me to change up my lists.

I'd also love the older models to have FREE PEOPLES as their keyword to improve synagery. 

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4 hours ago, Major said:

so much info on here. Has anyone got actually lists? Or links to youtube videos with them etc?

Im keen to take lists and try em out.

@Paul Conti has some great videos on his YouTube with his thoughts on Free Peoples. I really enjoyed his mathshammer view on the army, however; a lot has changed since he initially recorded it. 

You'll see that I have a Lets Chat Free People thread in this area too. Lots of wisdom across the players. 

I'm happy to share some of my lists. I sit in the 2k point range with a heavy magic focused army. 

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Ok, so I have 3 great cannons.... but I cannot find a warscroll for them anywhere? there is a Cannon in the ironweld arsenal or something but that's not the same unit and then the Master Engineer is no more as well. I mean, how do I use these units if they are no longer there?

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24 minutes ago, Major said:

Ok, so I have 3 great cannons.... but I cannot find a warscroll for them anywhere? there is a Cannon in the ironweld arsenal or something but that's not the same unit and then the Master Engineer is no more as well. I mean, how do I use these units if they are no longer there?

The Empire Cannon warscroll from the Compendium is still available to be used as it was not superceded by any new warscroll.

The Master Engineer should be used as a Gunsmith instead (Basically re-named Master Engineer).

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40 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

The Empire Cannon warscroll from the Compendium is still available to be used as it was not superceded by any new warscroll.

The Master Engineer should be used as a Gunsmith instead (Basically re-named Master Engineer).

I thought that might be so. I found the "gunmaster" but no gunsmith at all on GW site. also the gunmaster has no affect on any units around him at all so he doesn't help. In the iron weld arsenal there is a cannon which I think is meant to replace the Great Cannon by the looks of it.

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14 minutes ago, Major said:

I thought that might be so. I found the "gunmaster" but no gunsmith at all on GW site. also the gunmaster has no affect on any units around him at all so he doesn't help. In the iron weld arsenal there is a cannon which I think is meant to replace the Great Cannon by the looks of it.

Hi sorry, I forgot. It's Cogsmith (Dwarf Engineer) and Gunmaster (Master Engineer).

The Engineers don't get abilities, the abilities they give out are written on each War Machines warscroll.

For example, the Empire Great Cannon has an ability if there is a nearby HUMAN ENGINEER that it can re-roll failed to hit rolls.

 

In terms of whether or not the Ironweld Arsenal Cannon replaces the Empire Great Cannon. It does and it doesn't. The Empire Great Cannon is no longer sold, and the warscroll won't get any updates going forwards. The Ironweld Arsenal Cannon is the Dwarven variant, still sold by Games Workshop, and is the warscroll which will get more support going forwards.

There are some minute differences between these two scrolls in terms of abilities (and more importantly, the crew I guess). It really doesn't matter what warscroll you use, but technically people are in their right to tell you to use the Empire Great Cannon warscroll (There is even a FAQ about it @.@). Most people won't care which of the 2 warscrolls you use.

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9 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Hi sorry, I forgot. It's Cogsmith (Dwarf Engineer) and Gunmaster (Master Engineer).

The Engineers don't get abilities, the abilities they give out are written on each War Machines warscroll.

For example, the Empire Great Cannon has an ability if there is a nearby HUMAN ENGINEER that it can re-roll failed to hit rolls.

 

In terms of whether or not the Ironweld Arsenal Cannon replaces the Empire Great Cannon. It does and it doesn't. The Empire Great Cannon is no longer sold, and the warscroll won't get any updates going forwards. The Ironweld Arsenal Cannon is the Dwarven variant, still sold by Games Workshop, and is the warscroll which will get more support going forwards.

There are some minute differences between these two scrolls in terms of abilities (and more importantly, the crew I guess). It really doesn't matter what warscroll you use, but technically people are in their right to tell you to use the Empire Great Cannon warscroll (There is even a FAQ about it @.@). Most people won't care which of the 2 warscrolls you use.

Ok so those benefits from an engineer must just be for the old great cannon as the new one shows none (attached). I guess I just need to get my hands on the war scroll for the great cannon and GW's new Cannon gets no benefits from engineers and engineers scrolls show they give off no benefits as well?

 

cannon.PNG

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Just now, Major said:

Ok so those benefits from an engineer must just be for the old great cannon as the new one shows none (attached). I guess I just need to get my hands on the war scroll for the great cannon and GW's new Cannon gets no benefits from engineers and engineers scrolls show they give off no benefits as well?

 

cannon.PNG

Ahh, I see the problem. All the Ironweld Arsenal War Machines on the website are missing a page from their warscroll.

You'll need to check the App or the Grand Alliance : Order book to see the complete warscroll.

The missing page essentially has the stats for the Crew, and the abilities that the War Machine/Crew get.

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1 minute ago, someone2040 said:

Ahh, I see the problem. All the Ironweld Arsenal War Machines on the website are missing a page from their warscroll.

You'll need to check the App or the Grand Alliance : Order book to see the complete warscroll.

The missing page essentially has the stats for the Crew, and the abilities that the War Machine/Crew get.

ah so I am not crazy then! So the Grand Alliance: Order book has the warscroll for the old great cannon as well? I wish Empire/Free Peoples/Humans etc had their own book similar to my stormcast :(

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Just now, Major said:

ah so I am not crazy then! So the Grand Alliance: Order book has the warscroll for the old great cannon as well? I wish Empire/Free Peoples/Humans etc had their own book similar to my stormcast :(

No, the Grand Alliance Order book only has warscrolls for the current factions.

The Empire Great Cannon is not currently supported, so you need to find the Empire Compendium Warscrolls. This can be found on the Games Workshop website https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Rules

If the link above doesn't work, just scroll down to the bottom of the page and look for "Warhammer Age of Sigmar Rules" under the "Here to Help" section.

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Something that hasn't been called out here is the incredible value of the Freeguild Guard with Sword/Shield. 

4+ save, re-roll 1's with a solid hit/wound base characteristics. Add hold the line, 20+ models, Inspiring Presence and/or Hurricanum and you have a deadly pit.

My unit of 30 swordmen have take down Archaon on his mount, and many beasts of the mortal realms including Lord of Change, Stonehorns, Zombie Dragon, Durthu, etc. Easy to wrap around your opponent on 25mm bases and gaining 2 ranks of attacks. Add a Mystic shield and you have a match winning unit for 240pts. 

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Maybe the Freeguild List here gives you some input:

---------------

  • Freeguild General on mount with banner, Phoenix Stone and Inspiring.
  • Celestial Hurricanum with Mage
  • Freeguild Swordsmen x 20
  • Freeguild Crossbowmen x 30
  • Freeguild Handgunners x 20
  • Freeguild Handgunners x 20
  • Helstorm Rocket Battery
  • Helstorm Rocket Battery
  • Helstorm Rocket Battery
  • Empire Cannon
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Quote Paul:

What I still haven't experimented much with is Greatswords. I've run the math on them and they're an incredible value for their points. They're just really slow compared to your cav options, so I think that's a big hindrance to them. They hit like a ton of bricks when they get in combat though. 160 points for 10, they throw 21 attacks, easily at 2+/3+/-1/1 with a hurricanum nearby. Probably hitting with about 10 wounds per turn at Rend -1. With all of the confluence of abilities, they're practically immune to battleshock. A unit of 20 of these guys with a Hurricanum following them around is terrifying. 

 

remember the +1 attacks when they are within 6" of a hero. These guys are rippers. I use them in skirmish and they have become the unit that gets things done. There one wound hurts a bit though. 

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20 hours ago, Artobans Ghost said:

remember the +1 attacks when they are within 6" of a hero. These guys are rippers. I use them in skirmish and they have become the unit that gets things done. There one wound hurts a bit though. 

Not sure where you're getting +1 attack within 6" of a hero. They get +1 to hit if they're within 14" of a FREE PEOPLES HERO which was already included in the above.

That being said, once they get stuck into a protracted combat you can potentially buff them with the Freeguild Generals command ability to make them a real wrecking ball.

They're definitely one of the units I'm going to keep an eye out on though. I only have 10 at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see where the army lands in the GHB2017 and whether I can squeeze in another 10 to make a larger unit.

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On 2017-08-06 at 8:27 AM, someone2040 said:

Not sure where you're getting +1 attack within 6" of a hero. They get +1 to hit if they're within 14" of a FREE PEOPLES HERO which was already included in the above.

That being said, once they get stuck into a protracted combat you can potentially buff them with the Freeguild Generals command ability to make them a real wrecking ball.

They're definitely one of the units I'm going to keep an eye out on though. I only have 10 at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see where the army lands in the GHB2017 and whether I can squeeze in another 10 to make a larger unit.

That's a darn good question actually. Seems I had it screwed up. I blame this directly on brain failure lol. 

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makes me sad that most likely the Celestial hurricanum will fill the allies slot now meaning no room for artillery  **pours out a little liquor for my 3 boxes of unopened helstorms**

what are people feeling can replace the punch that canons and helstorms provided? 

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1 hour ago, Josh said:

makes me sad that most likely the Celestial hurricanum will fill the allies slot now meaning no room for artillery  **pours out a little liquor for my 3 boxes of unopened helstorms**

what are people feeling can replace the punch that canons and helstorms provided? 

You can always just run a Grand Alliance Order list if you really feel the need for both.

The only advantage you get by running Allies is that you get to keep Battleline IF units as Battleline as well as using any Allegiance Abilities you might be entitled to. 

For Free Peoples, considering we don't have any Battleline IF units, it's really going to end up a toss up as to whether the Free Peoples allegiance ability is worth more than the Grand Alliance Order one.

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tbh if it stays the same im prettty ok with 2 shots at battle shock with 2 dice from the banner from the general ^_^

 

same time i feel like they will want to make the allegiance abilities pretty tasty hence my concern

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Does anyone know how many points the empire great cannon is now? Or do we just use the scroll for the "Cannon" from ironweld arsenal?

My current list for 1000 points is

Empire General on foot with Warbanner
Gunmaster (Master Engineer but not sure if there is a difference?)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage
10 x Freeguild Guard
10 x Freeguild Guard
Empire Cannon (I have empire great cannons but not sure what the difference is?)
Empire Cannon (I have empire great cannons but not sure what the difference is?)


My current 1500 point list is

Freeguild General with Stately War Banner
Gunmaster (Master Engineer but not sure if there is a difference?)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage
20 x Freeguild Guard
20 x Freeguild Guard
20 x Freeguild Guard
20 x Freeguild Handgunners
Empire Cannon (I have empire great cannons but not sure what the difference is?)
Empire Cannon (I have empire great cannons but not sure what the difference is?)

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