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Empire / Freemen - What happened?!?!


Major

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So as a favour for a mate, I bought a bunch of Empire stuff off him. Going through the bag I found some cavalry units, some riflemen, a bunch of cool looking old school bits. So I thought to myself, may as well build this out and get 2500 points worth so I can field a list (can sit on the shelf next to my Stormcast Eternals and Nurgle). Problem is, a lot of what I see going around these days is not Empire specific, I see a lot of Order mixed in such as stormcast units.

Are Empire no longer viable or solid enough to field alone? Surely there are competitive lists out there somewhere that use just Empire or Freemen? I combed through some Warhammer Weekly vids and MC1Gamer vids but couldn't really find anything. Good lists (dirty or otherwise) are hard to come by.

Empire players, lend me your wisdom!

P.S It's sad to say but after watching that movie "The Patriot" I was like... "aww ******, I need to build me an Empire army". haha.

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yeah dude, free people are pretty strong!

empire general's command ability is OP, +1 to hit and wound if you don't move or charge

my 1000pts list at my local shop has been beaten once by dual stonehorn and ogre army (never played them before and made some deployment mistakes)

Celestial Hurricanum is OP also, but It sure seems like Freepeople favour a gun-line style army from everything I have seen, that and benefit from synergies.

 

Hope that helps!

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i have a rather brutal empire build for my local meta. it consists of two big blocks of 30 handgunners, a militia unit, a couple of artillery pieces, a mage, an empire general, and a fella on a griffon. it works out quite nice

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Yes it seems like they suit the "gentlemans war" style. Gun lines everywhere, cannons at rear with calvary on flanks. But you just dont see them much! Are the not competative enough?

Drop your lists and help me convince myself to buy the plastic! Lol

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cav suck i feel and there are better units to spend points on imo

I think you dont really see them because there are 'more meta armies' out there, we dont have any awesome battalions so puts you at a disadvantage when trying to get 1st turn

and they are pretty fiddly to paint haha

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31 minutes ago, Koalaninja said:

The rocket batteries on paper seem utterly bonkers. Never faced them though. 3 shots hitting the same target on 4's wounding on 3's -2 red d6 damage two of these will be wiping out any hero every turn. 

one guy in my local meta play a rocket batterie with a loremaster (reroll hit and wound), it's hilariously broken. 

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Great info all. Seems like Empire are more fill ins to Order based lists but not a focus or only race in a list. Which is sad, i was hoping for some interesting lists out there that I could try out lol. Pire need some love!

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yeah you can very easily run just empire/freepeople and do well

just the celestial Hurracanum (must have in 1500+ imo) & IWA artillery make the units preform even better & gives you some punch, all the units i take were in the old empire book in 7th so i dont have any issues with it

 but im looking forward to my crossbows hitting on 2+ in 2000pts and handguns being 2+ & 2+

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Handgunners is where it is at for me atm. I played a game against Skaven yesterday at club and 20 of them, no moving so hitting and wounding on 3s just absolutely pummeled through some really big shooty skaven units who could not match the enormous range that the Empire has.

I will keep looking through the googles for actual lists that have been tested and see what I can trial. I am really liking these guys although many of their models could do with some modernizing imo but thats just me.

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i feel that 30 x Crossbows are a must take with the generals buff;

 

60 shots, hitting on 3+ wounding on 3+ and -1 Rend on 5 & 6 +

 

basically delete most things in a round of shooting / battleshock stuff to death

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or 20 handgunners with long rifles. So long as they don't move they are hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, rend 1 at 2 damage. If they move it's still good, just changes to 4+ to hit. With a 30 inch range these guys are nuts. Add a hurricanum and a General and you're hitting on 2s? lol

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Crossbows seem quite good, the extra range is nice. I've crushed the handgunners list with my Kharadron list. The range really hurts them. Now its usually very good against cc armies. The extra range of the crossbows and extra shots is super nice though. The problem for this list can be objective capture. Other than that it is quite tough in a semi-competitive landscape.

Yea only leaders get the long rifle.

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14 hours ago, ledha said:

Only the unit leader can have a long rifle

omg your right... I feel terrible now. I thought that squad did waaay too much damage for their points cost in my last game lol. Ive contacted and admitted defeat to that person now lol. thanks for correcting me there!

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i use crossbows as my defensive objective unit, take and hold, border wars etc bubble wrapped by 10 handgunners seems to work nicely

delete a unit each round of shooting and let swordsmen and outriders take objectives

sure its a super defensive army but humans were never going to out kill chaos or ironjaws etc

maximize on your strengths as they say :P

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1 hour ago, Major said:

omg your right... I feel terrible now. I thought that squad did waaay too much damage for their points cost in my last game lol. Ive contacted and admitted defeat to that person now lol. thanks for correcting me there!

Haha its nice of you to tell them!

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On 7/10/2017 at 11:09 PM, Major said:

omg your right... I feel terrible now. I thought that squad did waaay too much damage for their points cost in my last game lol. Ive contacted and admitted defeat to that person now lol. thanks for correcting me there!

Faith in humanity restored and all that ;) 

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In a lot of ways it still plays a lot like old Empire lists. It's a very balanced army that works on a lot of synergy. You see a lot less in the way of big infantry blocks than you used to. 

Handgunners and Crossbows can be really strong, but their weakness really comes when you're up against another shooty army that out-ranges you. They're great against melee forces. I've experimented a lot with the shooting elements and I've found that the long range artillery is the best bet. Empire Cannons shoot 40" and Trebuchets shoot 48" and don't need line of sight. You can tuck them away on the board edge against most forces and just fire away without consequence.

The big strength is in the cavalry choices and the Brotherhood of Knights battalion. Grail Knights are incredibly powerful for their points. Pegasus Knights are incredibly mobile and powerful on the charge, Demigryphs are really tough with the Brotherhood, Empire Knights are still the giant anvil they've always been. 

What I still haven't experimented much with is Greatswords. I've run the math on them and they're an incredible value for their points. They're just really slow compared to your cav options, so I think that's a big hindrance to them. They hit like a ton of bricks when they get in combat though. 160 points for 10, they throw 21 attacks, easily at 2+/3+/-1/1 with a hurricanum nearby. Probably hitting with about 10 wounds per turn at Rend -1. With all of the confluence of abilities, they're practically immune to battleshock. A unit of 20 of these guys with a Hurricanum following them around is terrifying. 

The Bretonian Lord on a Pegasus fills the same role as the old "Capasus" (Captain on a Pegasus). He's extremely powerful and fast. If your opponent hasn't encountered it before they'll usually get a huge surprise. Throw the +1 damage artefact on him and he's got 5 attacks at 3+/3+/-1/D3+2 on the charge, plus the pegasus hooves. If he's your general, then you can give him the +1 attack command trait as well. And he's got 5 wounds and a 3+ save. 140 points. It's madness. It's not unreasonable for him to move up the board and pull off a charge top of turn 1 and pop one of your opponents units.

They're not really a top-tier army, but they definitely hold their own and can give your opponent some surprises. 

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Thanks Paul Conti,

That was a great read. I have identified soo gaps in my units I need to fill out so I am now going to go see what is for sale. I really dig the Empire army idea and you are right about the cheap units!

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