Jump to content
  • entries
    11
  • comments
    54
  • views
    3,436

Undiscovered Power Lists: Archaon Rotbringer


Tronhammer NZ

2,816 views

Welcome to the second part of our list-tech series, wherein I explore the dark apertures of a mind so insidious, even the Lords of Chaos can’t come up with lists as broken as his. I refer of course to the mystical augur we know only as ‘Jim’.

Jim comes up with thematic, non-legacy lists that we haven’t yet seen from the international tournament scene, or at least are not as prominent as we feel they could be.

Last time we looked at a badass, Dragon-Riding ‘A(e)lfa Strike’ list. You can check out that post here.

This week, Jim  gives us something far more sinister. Kneel, mortals, before Archaon Rotbringer.

Archaon Rotbringer.jpg


The Destroyer of Worlds is blessed by all the Dark Gods, often taking on their different aspects - including Nurgle.

 

Archaon Rotbringer

Archaon has been seen on the tournament circuit, but seldom, if ever, gets to a podium. Despite his intimidating stats, he is quite unwieldy, and can get taken out more often than is appropriate for a Destroyer of Worlds.

This list will work probably better with small Archaon, but our goal is to find ways to make non-legacy warscroll lists viable. We think this is a great way to get value out of big Archaon.

The basis for this combo is Archaon’s ability to trigger the Command Abilities for all Chaos Heroes nearby, and the fact that the effects of abilities can stack.

It should be noted here that some tournaments add a house rule that stops abilities from stacking, so if you are looking at running this list, check the Player's Pack well beforehand!

The List

  • Archaon - 700
  • Festus the Leechlord - 120
  • Harbinger of Decay - 140
  • Harbinger of Decay - 140
  • Harbinger of Decay - 140
  • Harbinger of Decay - 140
  • Chaos Marauders (x10) - 60
    • Mark of Nurgle
  • Putrid Blightkings (x5) - 180
  • Chaos Warriors (x10) - 180
    • Mark of Nurgle
  • Chaos Warshrine - 200

Leaders: 6
Battleline: 3
Behemoths: 2
Number of models: 32

TOTAL POINTS: 2,000


The Combos

Deployment

As a unit-heavy list, you have 10 deployments, and are unlikely to get the choice of first turn. This leaves you vulnerable to turn one alpha strikes, so deploy cautiously when up against alpha-strike lists by bubble-wrapping your heroes with the Marauders.


Command Abilities

Let’s crack straight into Command Abilities. Archaon’s Warlord Without Equal ability allows all other units in the army to immediately use their own command abilities. In order:

 

  1. Harbinger of Decay uses Morbid Vigour, allowing each model within 7” to ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a roll of a 5 or 6.
  2. A second Harbinger of Decay uses Morbid Vigour, allowing each model to within 7” to ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a roll of a 5 or 6.
  3. A third Harbinger of Decay uses Morbid Vigour, allowing each model within 7” to ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a roll of a 5 or 6.
  4. A fourth Harbinger of Decay uses Morbid Vigour, allowing each model within 7” to ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a roll of a 5 or 6.

Let us pause here to explain how this works. In AOS, there is no such thing as a ‘Ward Save’. Listed above are four separate abilities, each of which lets each model within range ignore all wounds suffered (after saves) on a 5 or 6.

For example; Archaon is within 7” of all four Harbingers. Say he gets hit by an arrow, and fails his 2+ armour save (he has Mystic Shield on of course). Now he has four more chances to ignore the wound on a roll of 5 or 6 - once for each Morbid Vigour ability in affect.

This means that after Archaon fails an armour save, 19%, or roughly one-in-five wounds are actually going through. Effectively you would have to inflict 100 wounds to him to take him down. If you do factor in his save, which even up against -2 rend is a 4+ with Mystic Shield - that is 200 wounds he can statistically absorb. Plus he gets the extra save against mortal wounds thanks to the Chaos Runeshield.

The rotten cherry on top of this disease-ridden combo is the Chaos Warshrine, adding an extra save on a six thanks to Protection of the Dark Gods.

The Chaos Warshrine could then activate, allowing all units within 16" to re-roll failed Wound rolls with the Favour of Nurgle.

Festus can then heal D3 wounds on one of your models with his Delightful Brews, Splendid Restoratives.

The Putrid Blightkings can also heal nearby units D3 wounds with their Virulent Discharge.


Magic Spells

If you need to make Archaon invulnerable, Mystic Shield goes on him.

Festus' Curse of the Leper is a nice debuff that can make key heavily armoured opposing units softer and softer. This combos very well with the Putrid Blightkings, who need the extra help with their lack of rend.


Movement

If you want to make the most of the protection combos, you need to keep your units pretty tightly grouped within range of the Harbingers. This is a disadvantage for when you have to divide your force for objective play, so you could divide the Harbingers between a few smaller pods if required.

Marauders are a fantastic ‘chaff unit as they have Move 6, and can be very fast on the retreat, allowing you to block charges and then move on to contest objectives. As mentioned, they will not die in a hurry.


Shooting

None to speak of!


Combat

There isn’t much to say here. The synergy of the list is that the Nurgle units will not die. All units benefit from the combat buff from the Warshrine, but again it's the protective synergies that are taking you the distance.


Army Cost

This is a bit more of an expensive army to put together using the correct models. Archaon is the single most expensive model in the game at the moment (though if you can obtain the small version that might be an option), and the Harbingers are Finecast direct order only models. You can get around this by maybe converting some Chaos Knights. As is, however, the RRP is £321.50, and you will have 10 Marauders and 6 Chaos Warriors left over from their boxes.


Unit Substitution

This list could work well with a variety of Nurgle units. Epidemius is a great choice - hide him in your backlines somewhere. You could drop a few Harbingers for some more mobile troops like Plague Drones if the confined nature of deployment is too restricting. The Glottkin could be useful to double the amount of wounds the Marauder chaff can take to 100. You can even run the small Archaon if you want to be even cheesier than Jim -  as long as he can trigger the Harbingers, you’re golden. Or at least a sickly shade of green (it’s Nurgle after all).

The list would scale very well up to Warhost sized games.


Weaknesses

Once the heroes start dying, your synergies fall apart. The good news is, this is very hard to achieve.

Tactical flexibility is a big issue. To maximse the synergy, your units must all be in close proximity, relinquishing a lot of battlefield control. One way around this is to split your army into two pods, sending two Harbingers with each.

A well-timed Hand of Dust or Curse of Years will also bring tears to your eyes.


On the Table

Jim and I had a game play-testing this list. My army consisted of:

  • Nagash - 900
  • Wight King with Black Axe - 120
  • 5 Black Knights x 120
  • 20 Skeleton Warriors with Sword and Shield - 160
  • 20 Skeleton Warriors with Spear and Shield - 160
  • 20 Skeleton Warriors with Spear and Shield - 160
  • 20 Grave Guard with Great Blades - 320
  • Legion of Death Battalion - 60

We played the Blood and Glory battleplan. It ended up being a poor example of how the Rotbringer army could play. Jim moved Archaon too far out of reach of the buffs. He charged some skeletons and fluffed all his dice rolls. I retreated my skeletons onto his objective, and charged him with my Grave Guard. Over the next few turns I was able to take him down, as he did not have the benefit of the Harbinger buffs. Plus his dice luck failed.

I almost won the game, but missed a run roll with Nagash which would have allowed me to claim all four objectives. As a result, Nagash wasn’t involved in the game at all. Jim stayed in the game somehow, using his marauders and Harbingers to sneak through my army lines with canny use of retreats and piling in, and was able to snatch all four objectives by turn 5. An incredibly exciting and tactical game, which I’m still buzzing about, but not one that shows off the main synergies of Archaon Rotbringer!

 

I am always keen to hear from anyone who has tried this! Please let me know your thoughts in the posts below. Can you think of any other counters? Would you be keen on giving the army a try?

  • Like 1

15 Comments


Recommended Comments

15 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Dropping any one thing in this list to get the plague touched warband formation in would make this even scarier. :(

 

True, could then get the army down in one deployment, and make the army Everchosen allegiance, allowing you to take Varanguard as battleline...

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Tronhammer NZ said:

True, could then get the army down in one deployment, and make the army Everchosen allegiance, allowing you to take Varanguard as battleline...

And an army wide -1 to hit debuff... Shudders....:(

Link to comment

There was another thread on this combo. It would be better with Little Archaon as you say.

It's good in theory. The strongest counter will be a single drop army (or just fewer than you) which comes down and nukes 3-4 of the Harbingers before your first hero phase - whereupon they win almost automatically. They are 7 wound heroes with a 4+ save from memory. Might be able to fit all of them in cover in a bubble, but not necessarily.

Things like Kurnoth Hunters and Durthu's shooting attack spring to mind. Ditto artillery. Ditto Judicator or Prosecutor Spam. Even Fyreslayers! You might have the 6+ from the Warshrine.

Alternatively they can do the same, but just kill all the bodies (again easy to do with just a 4+ save (or worse) and maybe a 6+ ward before your ward saves go up. You'll also be subject to Battleshock (no Criwn of Conquest yet to save you). Then your invulnerable heroes will struggle to outnumber the enemy on objectives.

The point (as always) is to ignore Archaon, never attack him and just retreat away and block him from moving where he wants to. His base is so derpy big that he cannot fly over a line of Grots without running. I've asked for the Chaos Helipad Warscroll to assist matters.

If they don't/cannot take first turn, then depending on Battleplan they can try to flood objectives with more bodies and outscore you early (you are slower than virtually any opponent). Other than Take and Hold, you are going to have to split up to get a major.

Your melee output is abysmal. Several armies can get a 35/36 save against your entire army or large portions of it. Treelord Ancients can do it against your entire army (subject only to Archaon getting lucky with Slayer of Kings). I would take Warriors of Chaos rather than Blightkings - perhaps with the -1 rend weapon choice. They are a bit faster and you don't need to stack defence any more.

Sylvaneth are going to stomp all over this (with abundant -1 to hit debuffs). They can either alpha strike you or just get in place faster and match defence for defence. Ditto Fyreslayers!

Plaguetouched only works in the Combat Phase. I've tried really hard to come up with credible lists featuring Big Archaon, Varanguard and/or Plaguetouched, but they all end up being meh. I've got a secret one, but reliant on Compendium units), so not keen on it now. 

Death stealing the 5+ ward save is like a giant flag saying don't play Nurgle (notwithstanding my own poor record against Nurgle which is down to playing more experienced and better opponents rather than because Nurgle are good).

Did you proxy this or have you already got 4 Harbingers?

One Harbinger is a very solid choice for a Big Archaon list - I agree with that. I lost to a list like that at Rain of Stars - I forgot that I could kill the Hellcannon Crew with my Magna Dragon turn one - then the Hellcannon did 18 mortal wounds in 2 turns. Despite this, it was a great game. Thanks again Laurie H-W.

 

Edited by Nico
Link to comment

Perhaps more importantly - would it be fun to play with repeatedly (let alone against)? Does it have replay value?

My Big Archaon is still in its box on a shelf.

  • Like 2
Link to comment

We proxied it for our test game, though Jim does have the Glottkin which he used in lieu of Festus and the Blightkings. He actually tried using a Hellflayer to push forward outside the 'pod', but we wanted to list something a bit more thematic.

I don't think it would be a fun army to play against, for sure. Order Draconis is far more so in that respect.

Thank you for the quality feedback by the way @Nico, very much appreciated! I am delighted we have a game of such depth that even cheesy combos like this have very sound and reliable counters. Hopefully it means that TOs won't feel the need to regularly 'comp' build diversity for the sake of balance (though I can see how enjoyment of games could become an issue - other lists spring to mind on that charge).

 

 

Link to comment
Quote

I don't think it would be a fun army to play against, for sure. Order Draconis is far more so in that respect.

Definitely think that the Order Draconis army would be more fun to play and probably to paint. Sadly even though the Archaon model is sensational I need a tournament list to motivate myself to build it.
 

Quote

 

Thank you for the quality feedback by the way @Nico, very much appreciated! I am delighted we have a game of such depth that even cheesy combos like this have very sound and reliable counters. Hopefully it means that TOs won't feel the need to regularly 'comp' build diversity for the sake of balance (though I can see how enjoyment of games could become an issue - other lists spring to mind on that charge).


 

You're very welcome. I was starting to feel I was being a bit overly negative on it. There's a good Vince Venturella video about why stacking defence in games can lead to less fun for both players (Warhammer Weekly with@Thomas Lyons) - it was a while ago. AoS has been quite sparing with the ward saves and other defensive combos which is a great thing (and the best ones usually leave you at least the option of retreating and hoping for a double turn or retreat plus run onto an objective).

I love a good combo more than most #onlythefilthful. As you say the game does feel like a hard counter/rock paper scissors game (it reminds me of Starcraft I in a good way - meant as a compliment) - Wrathbros beat buffed melee monsters; chaff beat Wrathbros; Gaunt Summoner beats large blocks; artillery beats Gaunt Summoner; Kroak plus Temple Guard beat MSU; Flesh Eater Courts plus avoidance beats that.... 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

In new metagames, pure agressivity is usually the way to go (reminds me SC too ^^ or MTG).

It was refreshing to see a build purely based on relisience.

I wonder what you can do with "beeing invincile" in mind in that game.

Your precedent work on draconis put me in awe to the point that i translated your work on another french forum (with abundance of links to your page).

Good Job!

Link to comment
Quote

In new metagames, pure agressivity 

Things are going that way in AoS - pew pew seemed to peak at The Warlords (using Archaon's Furry Friends, I faced 6 Gunlines out of 6 - including two 90% Prosecutor armies - impossible surely?).

Beastclaw Raiders have since emerged from painting tables all over the place, drunk on Battlebrew.

I think Les Martin's frankly beautiful execution of Household (no retreat!) plus Ancient plus Gnarled Warrior plus Oaken Armour to kerb stomp the Kunning Rukk - with zero risk (no mystic shield or shield of thorns cast rolls to fail) - is going to swing things again. I cannot wait to hear the Facehammer podcast which is just out I believe @Lez  

It's far too easy for Destruction to combine BCR plus Moonclan plus Kunning Rukk (optionally plus Spiderfang) - it's very hard to build a counter to all of these together (with an army that's still competitive in a normal game) without a sideboard (and I'm not particularly a fan of sideboards - dual lists are better than sideboards, but mono list is probably my favourite atm).

You can still build some insane bunkers (as this post illustrates), but the problem is moving them onto multiple objectives and/or the fact that many buffs require you to have taken a hero phase, so there's a window of opportunity for an alpha strike to cripple you. This seems like a good place for the game to be in. 

If your opponent clicks and realised how futile trying to attack will be, they are forced to play for the objectives and can often still win.

I remember hearing how Terry Pike beat the Kroak Temple Guard bunker (also virtually invincible unless you have mortal wounds on tap or lots of -2 rend) by zipping forward, killing the scoring units (at the time - Kroak couldn't score) and then pulling back and waiting until the clock ran out and he won.

Link to comment

Also - this army falls apart on Escalation! It is 10 Drops (which is one of the optimal numbers) - so 4, 4, 2, but you've still only got the following on the table:

  • Chaos Marauders (x10) - 60
    • Mark of Nurgle
  • Putrid Blightkings (x5) - 180
  • Chaos Warriors (x10) - 180
    • Mark of Nurgle
  • Chaos Warshrine - 200

You have to deploy 4 units and you have to deploy the first 3 Battleline Units. Probably the Warshrine since it will give off a 6+ Ward just by sitting there and looking pretty. You could put Archaon down for Inspiring Presence (but then you risk him getting killed and that's another autoloss).

If you're opponent can do some kind of alpha strike off the bat (e.g. Fyreslayers and 30 Vulkites - inherent battleline), then you've lost the game unless the opponent fails a pretty reliable charge. They will squash all your models and then they can retreat onto the objectives.

Similarly if your opponent takes the initiative in Battleround 2 (unlike the other battleplans this is often not the right thing to do since you might be sticking your units onto objectives only for the opponent to bring on the ultimate counter punch), then they can bring on yet more alpha strike or more pew pew and just take off all of these units. Normally this wouldn't be so bad as your follow up would be able to counter punch, but here your second wave is just a load of Defence and a hero who does significantly less damage than Mannderp in melee (unless you get lucky with Slayer of Kings).

Another illustration of how amazing the battleplans are in AoS! 

Incidentally in my really amazing game against Bryan Carmichael @Bryan C at The Warlords with Archaon's Furry Friends (linked the battle reports in post above), I had a similar problem since I was running an offensive buff stack machine using Little Archaon. I deployed 3 units of Clanrats round one and the wrong hero (should have put down the Verminlord who had the Crown of Conquest for making one unit immune to Battleshock - I could have kept him alive). I tried to bait some Prosecutors, but they did rather well being literally the hard counter to Clanrats - 2 damage is horrible!

My counterpunch was spectacularly and utterly brutal, but I wasn't quite able to claw it back. Fascinating game. Keen on a rematch one day. 

 

 

Edited by Nico
Link to comment
14 hours ago, Nico said:

There's a good Vince Venturella video about why stacking defence in games can lead to less fun for both players (Warhammer Weekly with@Thomas Lyons) - it was a while ago. 

This is the video you are referring to:

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Played this list yesterday vs an Ironjaws list. Played 2 places of Power and absolutely bossed it. Archaon killed 20 'Ard Boyz, 3 Gore Gruntas, 5 Brutes and a Maw Krusha. Took 0 wounds! 10 Chaos Warriors killed a Mega Boss. 5 Blight Kings killed a unit of 5 Brutes and didn't die! The 2+, 5+, 5+, 5+, 5+, 5+, 6+ on Archaon was hugely fun for me. Not sure my opponent felt the same, but we were practising for Heat 1 so all was fair game! Movement was definitely an issue for me, but I set up to defend my objective and then attacked his with the Marauders and a single Harbinger. Worked like a charm :)

 

Edited by Stevewren
Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...