Hinterlands

One of the players at my local shop posted a link to this on our FB page, and I'm so happy he did! We're going to start this up as soon as we can! Thank you so much. I cannot wait to start work on a warband.

I'll be sure to feature my build progress on my blog, and I'll send you a link.

Hey Sam, awesome job with the rules, my gaming group is starting and I got my first few games in tonight. Two Comments/questions/suggestions though. Maybe the rule of three should be made so that no One weapon can target the same model more than three times in a turn. We (my opponent and I) are proposing this because his Orruk Megaboss  seemed to be an unstoppable force. His six attacks with his boss choppa were murdering everything, and even with only 4 wounds he was nearly taking out entire warbands by himself. The second question, have you considered the bonus spells Sylvaneth (and now tzeentch) get for their alliance? Do you still get those for having a purely Sylvaneth (or tzeentch) keyword army? 

After playtesting with a darkoath chieftain I must say I agree with Mrmattywoodz. 6 attacks on the charge and then a mortal wound to every unit nearby when a model is killed was brutal and simply wiped half the opposing players warband off the table. 

On 2/11/2017 at 5:58 AM, Mrmattywoodz said:

Hey Sam, awesome job with the rules, my gaming group is starting and I got my first few games in tonight. Two Comments/questions/suggestions though. Maybe the rule of three should be made so that no One weapon can target the same model more than three times in a turn. We (my opponent and I) are proposing this because his Orruk Megaboss  seemed to be an unstoppable force. His six attacks with his boss choppa were murdering everything, and even with only 4 wounds he was nearly taking out entire warbands by himself. The second question, have you considered the bonus spells Sylvaneth (and now tzeentch) get for their alliance? Do you still get those for having a purely Sylvaneth (or tzeentch) keyword army? 

 

17 hours ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

After playtesting with a darkoath chieftain I must say I agree with Mrmattywoodz. 6 attacks on the charge and then a mortal wound to every unit nearby when a model is killed was brutal and simply wiped half the opposing players warband off the table. 

Hey guys, thanks for the comments and I am happy to see you using the rules. Just to quickly clarify, the Rule of Three limits attacks and abilities to being applied to no more than 3 enemy models in a single phase. For example with the Darkoath Chieftain if it charged in and applied all it's attacks onto one model and slayed it, it could then Deathblow ability against a further 2 models within 1". If it charged in and instead split its attacks against 3 models and slayed them all, it's Deathblow wouldn't trigger as the Darkoath Chieftain would have already made attacks against 3 models and killed them all too.

I think this is what you are proposing above,. I can perhaps clarify this in the FAQ and look to amending the wording if it throws off a lot of people.

As for the allegiance abilities. The standard allegiance abilities are not used (as mentioned on page 5 of version 2), which means the Sylvaneth, BCR, Bonesplittaz and Tzeentch (and upcoming Stormcast) allegiance abilities are not used either. However, I am really keen for the community to create extras and add-ons for Hinterlands, and this seems like a perfect expansion to make if anyone is keen!  

2 hours ago, bottle said:

 

Hey guys, thanks for the comments and I am happy to see you using the rules. Just to quickly clarify, the Rule of Three limits attacks and abilities to being applied to no more than 3 enemy models in a single phase. For example with the Darkoath Chieftain if it charged in and applied all it's attacks onto one model and slayed it, it could then Deathblow ability against a further 2 models within 1". If it charged in and instead split its attacks against 3 models and slayed them all, it's Deathblow wouldn't trigger as the Darkoath Chieftain would have already made attacks against 3 models and killed them all too.

I think this is what you are proposing above,. I can perhaps clarify this in the FAQ and look to amending the wording if it throws off a lot of people.

As for the allegiance abilities. The standard allegiance abilities are not used (as mentioned on page 5 of version 2), which means the Sylvaneth, BCR, Bonesplittaz and Tzeentch (and upcoming Stormcast) allegiance abilities are not used either. However, I am really keen for the community to create extras and add-ons for Hinterlands, and this seems like a perfect expansion to make if anyone is keen!  

I understand the rule of three as you intended it, I was actually proposing a second rule of three. The ironjawz megaboss, even at half wounds, is insanely powerful for half his points cost. He still gets 8 attacks a turn, and he was destroying anything he touched, and. It much could stand up to him, even when throwing 100 points of models at him. What my playgroup is proposing is making it so you can not use more than 3 attacks against a single model. For instance, the megaboss comes into contact with a liberator, a judicator and a Retributor. He could do 3 attacks to the judicator, 3 attacks to the Retributor and 2 attacks to the liberator, but could not do 4 to the Retributor and 2 to each other model. I might be jumping to a conclusion after two games, and we are going to play at least a few dozen more with the rules as you have presented them before making our own tweaks, but the power level of certain heroes, even at half wounds, is very overwhelming at our initial first glance, as nothing but the wounds get modified for half the points. I will let you know how it goes as we play. We have 14 people in our playgroup participating and/or planning to participate in our campaign, and so far we are having a blast. Thanks for your hard work! 

Ah, thanks for explaining. Wow, 14 players is a great size for some real insights into how the system stands up. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you can give at a later date  

I initially made the rule of three to curtail ranged heroes and other AoE abilities - I worry about nerfing melee heroes because there are only 5 or so turns in a game and if you keep your warband spread out or drip feed grunts you can keep them at bay (from my experience). I would be really keen to know what your experiences are however  so let me know!

Yeah, like I said, it might just be us overreacting to a single character that is just very good. Honestly, of the 14 people in our group, I suspect only about 10 will really play more than once a month, but I will let you know our findings. It's also a good spread of armies, so we should be able to test a lot of different lists. I was planning on playing some games tonight, but sadly I live in the part of Northern California that just got evacuated. 

On 13/02/2017 at 7:40 AM, Mrmattywoodz said:

Yeah, like I said, it might just be us overreacting to a single character that is just very good. Honestly, of the 14 people in our group, I suspect only about 10 will really play more than once a month, but I will let you know our findings. It's also a good spread of armies, so we should be able to test a lot of different lists. I was planning on playing some games tonight, but sadly I live in the part of Northern California that just got evacuated. 

Oh no! I hope you managed to grab your models when being evacuated!

Ok, a situation poped up and I'm curious how everybody else is handling it. Retributors and executioners normally do nmortal wounds on a to hit roll of 6+. If, when they level up, I roll that they now get +1 to hit, do they now do mortal wounds on a 5+ (like they would in normal AOS when a character such as a lord Celestant buffs them), or is they simply have the minimum roll to hit be 2 better than normal? Just curious as to how everybody else plays, or what the RAI was when writing this rule. 

1 minute ago, bottle said:

Oh no! I hope you managed to grab your models when being evacuated!

Yeah, I was able to at least grab all the models that I had painted/converted. I actually was able to get a game of Hinterlands in tonight at a store in Sacramento, the area I evacuated too. The terrain at their store blew mine away! It was fun, and a good distraction. 

3 minutes ago, Mrmattywoodz said:

Ok, a situation poped up and I'm curious how everybody else is handling it. Retributors and executioners normally do nmortal wounds on a to hit roll of 6+. If, when they level up, I roll that they now get +1 to hit, do they now do mortal wounds on a 5+ (like they would in normal AOS when a character such as a lord Celestant buffs them), or is they simply have the minimum roll to hit be 2 better than normal? Just curious as to how everybody else plays, or what the RAI was when writing this rule. 

RAW is they do exploding damage on a 5+ now, RAI is have a vote with your gaming group to decide

I am currently playtesting myself a limit on the amount of mortal wounds that bypass saving throws a turn - I posted up some of the experimental rules in the TGA thread (which is good  for general discussion too):

 

I would also hesitate in nerfing melee heroes, as 1 or 2 arcane bolts will chase off/down even MegaBosses...

I would also say someone playing with Fyreslayers' beta points/gold costs could really swing a, sigh, "Hinterlands meta" as their ability to shrug off mortal wounds around their Heroes would discourage people spamming cheap Wizards.

As for my own warband, I figured a Witch Hunter + Warrior Priest + Handgunners & Dwarf Miners would be rather fluffy yet effective, as lore focuses on the struggle vs. Tzeentch cults in City of Secrets.

Also, the idea of additional Wounds past the 1st placing your elites & Heroes further up the XP table seems real solid to my buddy & me.

As the person playing Fyreslayers in those pics, I would like to add that I abandoned the list.  They can last a while, but they were just not reliable for damage output.  Then again, it could be my rolling.  Not once did the Runefather cause a wound.

I have since switched to an all Aelf Team (the Ae-Team) and they have performed quite well.  They all have multiple attacks, mostly at 3+ meaning there is a reliability to wound there that the Fyreslayers lacked.  I took a Waywatcher Lord and he just tears up the field with his archery abilities. 

In the old Mordheim rules, you would have a warband rating that was based on the figure count and the xp earned.  We (the group MrMattywoodz and I play in) are likely going to try out something similar.

Here are the relevant buts from Mordheim. 

Let me know how your campaign progresses and what its like using both Experience and Cost to calculate the Underdog Rating. I omitted it to keep things simple but it is a perfect thing to switch up. I guess you drafted up your Fyreslayer band before the new points that would of course make them cheaper in gold now too, but armies without much shooting are probably always going to struggle a bit in Hinterlands. I am putting together my own Fyreslayer warband as we speak and can't wait to try out the Runemaster who I think will be very powerful. I will include some Thunderers if I feel I am getting too outgunned.  

Mine was post-update.  It could be the way i played them, too.  My list was:

Runefather 

Grimwrath

4 hearthguard beserkers

 

The 4+ to hit isnt normally that bad, but they are 16pts a model with a 5+4+ if near a hero.  Maybe if i only took the one hero, the increased body count would help.  

The Ae-Team has:

 

Waywatcher Lord

Fleetmaster (20pts for 5a and 3w)

Executioner

Wildwood Ranger

Swordmaster

White Lion

 

All have at least 2 melee attacks that hit on 3's.  3 have save rerolls + the Lord's -1 to be hit at range.

Yeah, that's pretty close to what I was thinking (also hiring unit members in multiples of 3 so you get squad upgrade) 

-Grimwrath Berserker

-3 HG Berserkers w/ Flamestrike Poleaxes (better to get 2 to Wound rolls rather than overkill individual models w/ broadaxes, & 16 gold apiece isn't bad compared to Phoenix Guard, etc. etc.)

-then fill out your list w/ Vulkite Berzerkers for cheap bodies.  Proceed to run at people, using as much scatter cover as you can.

Everyone gets a short-medium range attack, & a 2nd Save vs. ALL Wounds (handy once people see how bent Mortal Wounds scale down to this level!) 

Auric Hearthguarders aren't bad for their points, but their won't be any MONSTERS to shoot other than maybe a Khorgorath??

Edited February 22, 2017 by Dotification

A-ha! You've found the Fleetmaster! I've been worried about him from day 1 haha. Its going to be interesting to see if he remains 40pts when the GHBII comes out!  

@Dotification I built my list using what i had on hand, but your list looks a lot better/flexible than mine.  Taking in multiples of 3 is a good choice.  In the Aelf list, i have the ranger there to go after monsters, but I don't think i will see them, like you said. 

 

@bottle I've started considering him in my normal AoS lists, just as a 40pt filler if needs be.

Got our first Hinterland game in last night. Played a 3 way game over a magical crossbow made of pure realmstone.

Warbands were a Chaos(ish) warband led by a Darkoath Chieftain (Chief Gah'err of the Kilrath) accompanied by a Chaos Sorcerer (The Dark Emissary from the old Albion campaign), a Fleshhound (the original Scyla model) and a Crypt Ghoul (representing a cannibal following the Chieftain and feeding on his kills).

Order force led by a Paladin with a handful of Spireguard, a Realm Knight and a single Reaver.

And finally a Beastclaw Raider Hunter who was accompanied by a Yheete and a Sabertusk.

The game came down to a couple of bad dice rolls from both the Order and Chaos forces. The Paladin rolled a 1 for his big attack against the Yheete leaving him free to wipe out the Spireguard. And a double 1 for the charge roll from the Darkoath Chieftain against the hunter right after I had boasted him with the Daemonic Essence spell before being frozen in Ice. Another key moment was the Ghoul hiding in the shadows of some old ruins until the last turn when the Dark emissary cast his Daemonic Essence spell a second time and he leaped out with a rock swinging it at the Realm Knight and being kicked in the head by his horse (he is now sitting out a game).

Really fun game and we have a forth player interested so should be giving some more feed back soon.

 

 

 

Sounds lots of fun! So did the winner get their hands on the magical crossbow? Look forward to hearing more about it!  

The Ogre Hunter got his hands on the crossbow and also got an extra wound. Going to be difficult for either of us to take out of action now. On the bright side I have 25 gold  to spend on another member of the warband. I'm thinking of an old 1980 Realm of Chaos Khornegor. I also need to add a war-axe to my Darkoath Chieftain and give the Dark Emissary a Runesword. Oh an I need to glue Scyla's tail back on. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by WilliamMatthews

We played a game recently and we wondered how you would handle units which "transform" into something else.

For instance a dying Pink Horror - will he split into two Blue horrors? Or would you have to pay this for gold as if you would be playing with points?

Also - how is everybody seeing a single Pink Horror casting magic? Technically he is the cheapest full caster in a HInterlands game as a "unit" of Pink Horrors is a Wizard.

I think from a narrative perspective it should be allowed. However the Pink Horror counts as slain and the Blue Horrors remain in the warband. Thats how I would do it, and associated costs etc so the warband will loose 4 gc of rating.

As far as spells and pink horrors are concerned they only have arcane bolt and mystic shield. Yes they are a cheap caster. But in shardsfall, my ruleset, I have stated that while you can have several miniatures from a warscroll they all count as part of that warscroll and multiples of warscrolls are not allowed other than heroes. This would mean that only a single pink horror can cast while the rest cannot as you only have one unit of pink horrors. However this can be fun as you wont know which one will cast but thats just Tzeentch for you lol (could also be a random dice roll if the spell is cast and thats the horror that casts it).

For the record I Play Tzeentch.

 

I had my first mini-campaing (Two games  ) and it was a BLAST.

I use the narrative variation, I'm going as the Game Master and my older brother (25 years) and my little cousin (11 years) play as the heroes.

My little cousin is being step by step introduced in miniature wargaming by me, but he knows still 0 of Lore, and my older brother has 0 interes in miniatures and know 0 of the Lore, but has we are visiting the family he play with us for fun.

I let them pick (As i don't have the GHB I pick measuring the power by eye) a couple of heroes with a retinue:

-A Knight Questor with 2 Liberators.
-A Dwarf Lord or a Daemon-slayer with up to 4 dwarfs (Picked between warriors, miners and thunderers)
-A Elf Archmage or a Elf Prince with up to 3 elfs (Swordmasters or Seaguards)
-A Goblin Shamn or a Goblin Warboss (Up to 6 goblins picked between archers and spearmen. Or 1 troll)

My older brother pick the Knight Questor and the 2 liberators. He called him Sir Troglodofh of DeepCave and the 2 liberators where his squires: Farruquito and Paquirrin (Don't bother looking in gogle, one is a spanish singer and the other a spanish reality show "star")

As they know 0 of the Lore of Age of Sigmar, Sir Troglodofh has a generic backstory: He was a peasant-born Knight that try to marry the daughter of his King. When he give him all of his money as marriage portion, the King kept the money but didn't give the hand of his daugther in return, because all of the nobility despised Sir Troglodofh "If you born as a peasant, you die like a peasant". So, losing his money and his Keep, he go for adventure with his 2 last loyalty servants, lookin for fame and money to, someday, go back and marry the Daugther of his liege, after killing him.

Mi little cousin pick the Dwarf Lord and called him Thorgrim (I sugget that name) Wolf-Pelt (Because it was Carnaval and he was using a wolf-head cap), 2 warriors (Glóin and Gimli Jr.) and 2 thunderers (Olaf and Pilaf). They were the last survivors of a burned Karaz at the claws and fire of a dragon. Thorgrim was famous for his obsesion of tropy hunting (And actually mi little cousin do that in the first game! )

 

The two meet into the tabern of a city, New Karroburg. In it, they where informed that the city has a problem with rat-men (Skavens), hideous critters that were stealing childrens and killing the cows and all of that.

As the first scenary we used the one of example into the Hinterlands Rules, but I change the "crypts" and the undead for "Caves" where they need to find the entrance to the Skaven base, and obviously change the undead for Skavens clan rat.

I put groups of 4-5 clans rats roaming the hills, and groups of 1-2 spawn at the first of every turn. It was funny because as my older brother go straight to check one of the 3 entrances, my little cousin and his Dwarfs go direct to the Skaven-captain that was the mini-boss of this scenario. 

I'll say that the Age of Sigmar rules where FANTASTIC, the format of warscrols and having all the rules at hand where ace, and they just learn the rules in like 10-15 minutes.

Summarizing: Thorgrim kill the Skaven-Captain, Sir Troglodof and his squires found the entrance of the cave, and the poor Glóin was "slayed". When one of Sir Troglodof squires (Liberators) enter the cave, the boss appears: A Ogre-Rat. They kill it but it wasn't easy.

After this, my cousin roll a 4, so Glon was injured and slowly recovering, so he can't help them into the Skavens bases. Farruquito and Paquirrin each gain 2 levels: One gain +1 to hit and +1 to wound and the other gain +1 damage and +1 movement.

The next mission was inside the Skavens tunels. They fight 10 clan rats that kill easy, but they just run straight to the trap that I set for him. Thorgrim and his dwarfs fight against 6 skavens in the back where Sir Troglodofh fight against 3 clanrats, a Ogre-Rat and a Warlock-Enginer. In this battle, Gimli Jr. Paquirrín and Farruquito go KO and Sir Troglodof lose 2 lives, but they had the pat opened to the Skaven Warlord.

They fight against him and end winning the campaing. All of the KO's survived, but Paquirrin gain -1 to movement.

Summarizing (Again) :They love it. I love how well random units just fuction like bosses with 0 effort with the Warscrol sistem: The Rat Ogre hit like a truck, the Warlock-Enginer put a lot of mortal wounds (But i don't abuse it every turn to not kill their heroes) and the Skaven Warlord can boost the clanrats and just run from combat. The Knight Questor fuction as the "tank" of the party, being a Hero Killer, and the Dwarf Lord just fuction as a "commander" busting his soldiers "to hit" rolls against the skavens bosses.

All of this rules combined so easy, and work so well to create a tactically deep gameplay that... oh. We had so much fun (To be honest we were 3 clowns roleplaying the characters. My older brother used a mantle has cape and my little cousin just do a motivational speech every time he used his Dwarf Lord hability)

I had imprimed in full colour the Hinterlands rules. Totally worth it! Thanks you for all the effort! My cousin said that it was the most epic game of history (And I had played WHFB and W40K with him)

PD: Sorry for my english, I'm a filthy spaniard that suck with it.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Galas